FLR(M) & Public Funds

My fiance is about to start a new job Monday after being out of work 3 weeks (he was made redundant due to the economic climate). In the meantime, he had signed on to the jobcentre for benefits after not having any interviews after a couple of weeks and then subsequently signed off at the end of this week since he THANKFULLY found a job again.

When he initally called the jobcentre they asked if there was anyone else living here with him and he said yes, his American fiance. They then started to ask for my details and I had to insist that I wasn't at all associated with things since I cannot benefit personally from public funds.

He should be getting a check by Monday which will be backdated for the 18 or so days he was out of work (which is barely enough to cover petrol and groceries -- thank goodness his parents were so kind to help out).

Now, when I attend my appointment on November 3 for FLR(M), I'm wondering if we should include a statement to explain his time out of work -- and along with that, to explain why the overdraft for his bank account was used to the max? Or is there anything specific that needs to be noted...like will he have to show he received some public funds as he was out of work and entitled to them? Then, along with this...can this affect my application/chances of obtaining FLR(M) even though once I have it, I will be able to work and contribute financially?

Thought I would get an idea now since I'm starting to prepare the supporting document info.

I cannot supply results bc my EEA4 application is still under process (6 weeks now). However, 9 months ago my wife and I ended up with a confusing situation and screwed up paperwork and mismanagement of a Working Tax Credit for her where funds of £800 were distributed to us over 4 months. These went into my bank account as we were living together and I had a job (WTC rules make it this way).

Anyway, I contacted the Tax Office and explained that 1. I cannot receive public funds and 2. I earn enough to disqualify the wife for payments under joint circumstances.

The credit was revoked and I agreed to pay back the £800. I have a letter of agreement with a payment schedule regarding this from the Tax Office which I placed in my EEA4 application. I am told by people who know a lot more about this than me that this should be fine since I demonstrate it will be paid back and I am keeping to the payment schedule.

Basically just full disclosure works best

I think it would be useful to explain that not all possible benefits from the UK Government are within the definition of Public Funds. In particular, there are two different types of JSA ..... Job-Seeker's Allowance ..... and only one of those is within the definition of Public Funds, as in para 6 of the Immigration Rules.

What type of JSA has your fiancé claimed? If contribution-based then the good news is that C-B JSA is not within the definition of Public Funds.

However, even if it is income-based JSA, which is within the defintion of Public Funds, he is British, and is perfectly entitled to claim I-B JSA .... for himself, but with no addition for you.

I'm wondering if we should include a statement to explain his time out of work -- and along with that, to explain why the overdraft for his bank account was used to the max?

I think that would be a good idea, and even include the documentation about the JSA to confirm the period of temporary unemployment.

I earn enough to disqualify the wife for payments under joint circumstances.

Greg, can you explain, the Tax Credits claim, was that in the joint names of you and your wife? If so I don't understand how, mathematically, too much Tax Credits ended up being paid. Please explain.

The credit was revoked and I agreed to pay back the £800. I have a letter of agreement with a payment schedule regarding this from the Tax Office which I placed in my EEA4 application. I am told by people who know a lot more about this than me that this should be fine since I demonstrate it will be paid back and I am keeping to the payment schedule.

Why on earth did you do that? Your wife is an EEA citizen, otherwise you would not be talking about form EEA4. You are your wife and perfectly entitled to claim Tax Credits, jointly!

The more technical comment is that one should never just read the definition of Public Funds in para 6 of the Immigration Rules, without also taking account of para 6A and 6B.

In particular, under the terms of reg 3(2), Tax Credits (Immigration) Regulations 2003, as reinforced by para 6B of the Immigration Rules, there is no problem you being a joint claimant with your wife for Tax Credits.

Reg 3(2) says that where one of the couple is a person not subject to immigration control (your wife) and the other is a person subject to immigration control (you), then for Tax Credits purposes only both of you are treated as not subject to immigration control. Accordingly such a joint claim is totally OK. And para 6B of the Immigration Rules says :-

6B. A person shall not be regarded as having recourse to public funds if he is a person who is not excluded from specified benefits under section 115 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999 by virtue of regulations made under sub-sections (3) and (4) of that section or section 42 of the Tax Credits Act 2002.

-: and I assure you that the Tax Credits (Immigration) Regulations 2003 were indeed made under section 42 of the Tax Credits Act 2002.

I cannot supply results bc my EEA4 application is still under process (6 weeks now). However, 9 months ago my wife and I ended up with a confusing situation and screwed up paperwork and mismanagement of a Working Tax Credit for her where funds of £800 were distributed to us over 4 months. These went into my bank account as we were living together and I had a job (WTC rules make it this way).

Anyway, I contacted the Tax Office and explained that 1. I cannot receive public funds and 2. I earn enough to disqualify the wife for payments under joint circumstances.

The credit was revoked and I agreed to pay back the £800. I have a letter of agreement with a payment schedule regarding this from the Tax Office which I placed in my EEA4 application. I am told by people who know a lot more about this than me that this should be fine since I demonstrate it will be paid back and I am keeping to the payment schedule.

Basically just full disclosure works best

Subject to Immigration Control (From the Inland Revenue website)
You are subject to immigration control if

• the Home Office says your leave to remain in the United Kingdom (UK) is on the condition that you do not have recourse to public funds, or
• you require leave to enter or remain in the UK, but do not have it.

If you are subject to immigration control, you may still be entitled to tax credits if

• you are claiming as a couple and only one of you is subject to immigration control
• you are a family member of a country in the European Economic Area (EEA) or of Switzerland
• you are a sponsored immigrant under the Home Office rules
• you (or your partner) are legally working in the UK and are nationals of Algeria, Morocco, San Marino, Tunisia or Turkey. 

If you want to check to see if you'd qualify here's the link:
http://www.taxcredits.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/HomeNew.aspx

Greg, can you explain, the Tax Credits claim, was that in the joint names of you and your wife? If so I don't understand how, mathematically, too much Tax Credits ended up being paid. Please explain.

JohnL,

I think that was the problem, it wasn't a joint claim and his income was not taken into consideration. Since he stated that he earned more than what would be allowed for a joint claim.

Webly, you might well be right, but I am confused by :-

These went into my bank account as we were living together and I had a job (WTC rules make it this way).

-: which suggests that the Tax Credits office did know about him. So Greg, please do clarify this. Was the Tax Credits claim in the joint names of you and your wife?

Hi all,

First, I do not want this post to turn into my situation and not LoveMyBrit's so I would suggest the topic be split. She still has a question awaiting an answer!

My situation is confused but here it goes, WebyJ is close to the answer (I think??).

I had my wife apply for a Working Tax Credit for 05/06. My wife is an EEA citizen and for that year she worked full time and qualified as she earned very little. In October 06 she switched from full time work to full time PhD student. In September 06 we began living together. I worked part time Sept 06 till December 06 when I managed a FT position (prior was a student). The 05/06 application ONLY requested earning during 05/06, we listed these only and were told a credit would be issued and received £200 per month for 2 months (Feb, March 08), When the update in April was sent they continued (for some unknown reason) to send me 2 more payments for April, May till payment was completely stopped.

The application never asked for my 06/07 tax information which would have shown I made over the threshold. Further, the application states the Tax Credit must be made to the person who earns more in the home. Hence the issuing documents state the Credit is made to ME and went into my bank account, though it is entirely for my wife.

The above application was not sent in till December 2007. Yes, very late but still before the deadline. This was because the Tax Office has issued my wife 2 NINs. One for freelance work and one for regular and one of these they have her name, address and details all wrong as so think it is some sort of fraud rather than them typing the details in wrong. This has taken months to sort out so they know who she really is on all other applications.

From December 06 forward I earned over £18,000/year and declared this in April 08 when the form to update our details was sent out. Yes, I earned this amount when the original application was made but the application ONLY asked for 05/06 earnings not 06/07. When we made the application I honestly did not expect ANY Tax Credit either, I was astonished they issued anything. Further, just after the application was sent out we were in a very serious car crash with extensive and serious injuries. We were both out of work for 3 months and in and out of hospital during it. Having extra money issued to you then is something you do not question and sort out later.

In April 08 when I sent in the updates for the 07/08 tax year they stopped the tax credits (though it took till end of May as stated above for this to happen) and wanted everything back. It took till August 08 for them to notify us of a repayment plan and that they wanted the money back. At which time I was preparing my EEA2 application (sorry typo I mentioned EEA4 earlier). The Tax office first threatened to dock a months wages direct from my salary, then just seize it from my bank account, then agreed to a repayment plan. When I send them a little more than the plan required in month 1 they accused me of hiding the real capability to pay it all back ASAP and we began the whole argument of repayment again.

I honestly have no clue what we were entitled. I maintain and accept the Tax Credit was never for me, though put into my account as the primary wage earner of the household from Aug 06 forward. However, my wife did qualify (to my knowledge) for 05/06. I agreed (for better or worse) to a repayment merely so nothing would get in the way of the EEA application which is more important than some £800.

When the EEA application was mailed 6 weeks ago the letter from HMR&C was included stating the overpayment and that I was in repayment so, hopefully, nothing is the matter with my Visa.

Thanks for that Greg. Sorry I thought, from what you posted earlier, that you had revoked the Tax Credits claim, but now see that was done by the Tax Credits office, who went on to demand back money previously paid by them. The revocation has, based upon what you have now posted, has nothing at all to do with your immigration status.

Let's just look at the mechanics of Tax Credits. Initially the calculations are based upon the income for the previous tax year. As regards :-

In September 06 we began living together. I worked part time Sept 06 till December 06 when I managed a FT position (prior was a student). The 05/06 application ONLY requested earning during 05/06,

In therefore follows that the joint claim for Tax Credits would have only commenced in September 2006 ... in the tax year 2006-2007 .... and initially would have been based upon the income of the couple in 2005-2006. Then later, after the end of 2006-2007, you would have been sent a "renewal pack", asking you for details of income for 2006-2007. That details would have enabled the 2006-2007 calculation to be finalised, but also, if appropriate, the 2006-2007 income would have formed the basis of a 2007-2008 calculation.

Now an important principle to appreciate. Unless the income, from one year to the next, has gone up by more than £25000, the calculation for the year just ended is not revised. Example .... if in say 2006-2007 the income was say £16000, and then in 2007-2008 it is £40000, the initial calculation for 2007-2008, based initially upon the income of 2006-2007, will not be revised when we know the 2007-2008 income level. However the 2007-2008 income, to form the initial calculation for 2008-2009, would lead to the conclusion that no Working Tax Credit is due for 2008-2009.

So Greg, turning to what you have posted, what year are they saying you have overpaid for? 2007-2008?

From December 06 forward I earned over £18,000/year and declared this in April 08 when the form to update our details was sent out.

What about in April 2007? What happened at that point in time?

What type of JSA has your fiancé claimed? If contribution-based then the good news is that C-B JSA is not within the definition of Public Funds.

However, even if it is income-based JSA, which is within the defintion of Public Funds, he is British, and is perfectly entitled to claim I-B JSA .... for himself, but with no addition for you.

He chose contribution-based because the guy he spoke with when he went in to sign on said that would be the one he should use that wouldn't use my information or consider me a dependent. In the end, he was very clear to them that I cannot benefit, so he could only claim for himself. Thank goodness he was only off for 3 weeks, but it seemed like forever.

Thanks, John.  Just wanted to be certain...you never know when these things can come back to bite you.

He chose contribution-based because the guy he spoke with when he went in to sign on said that would be the one he should use that wouldn't use my information or consider me a dependent.

In fact, given that he claimed c-b JSA, there is no problem him getting an increase in respect of you. After all c-b JSA is not Public Funds!