greetings - advice needed

hello group - I've just joined and have read through some posts.  I hope to come here more often.  I'm writing with the notion that someone can give me some realistic advice about a crazy situation.  I'll try to keep this brief.

Naively, I went to London in 2001 to be with a signifigant other.  This didn't go very well, and I was only there as a tourist, and had worked part time whilst I was there.  I left, got my own flat, and went back to work.  Yes, I know this was foolish, but at that point, I had virtually no money, and very little contact with the USA, and so, no home to return to.  I Met someone else, came back and realised that I'd overstayed my 6 months visa by 2 weeks.  Well, when I flew into Heathrow, I was shipped back after my then boyfriend took the 'complete honesty' policy and told immigration everything that's happened.  About 7 months later, he dumped me.  I had a to build a whole entirely new life here in the USA.

Finally, after over a year and a half being in the US, I decided it was finally time to apply for a pre-entry clearance to take a 6 day trip to the UK to collect my things left there, and to see my extended family - people so close to me that I haven't seen in a long time.  The process was endless, but my interview went well... I was completely truthful to immigration about my past problems, what I'd done wrong, how important it was for me to (at the very least) see my extended family and friends.  A few days later, I received my passport back, informed that I was denied the clearance.  I was devastated.  I'm still a bit in shock over this - so much time has passed since I lost EVERYTHING while at Heathrow, what more does immigration want me to prove to them just to take a 6 day trip?  Do they really think, after they have found out SO much about me, that I would enter the country and never leave?  It's been such an emotional nightmare being separated from my beloved friends, losing my 'fiance' - it's very difficult to know what is supposed to be proved to immigration on order to get permission to travel.

I've taken the advice of a friend who's said I must contact my Representative in Washington and ask that his office work as liason with the consulate in D.C. to assist in getting me a pre-entry clearance.  I have written and am awaiting advice about that now.

I truly loved being in England, and felt as if I'd found a kind of home, and had hoped I'd see a way to stay there legally - this was one of the things I was working so hard on just before I left there, talking to everyone I could.  I have no idea what the future holds, since I can't even get permission to travel there.

Has anyone experienced such trauma, and how have you gotten through it?  How long will I have to wait to get a clearance?  Was I wrong to he honest with immigration?  I'm very distressed and there seems to be no one that can help.  Any comments are very happily welcomed, thanks for reading.
John

Welcome John! Sorry that I can't be of any practical help with your situation, but I just wanted to tell you that I hope everything works out for you in the long run. I am so sorry that you have had to go through such an ordeal! I think contacting your representative will be a step in the right direction. Immigration and red tape is such a hurdle now...seems like they're doing a better job keeping the "good" guys out more than the "bad!" (Of course, the bad guys aren't honest either.) Hopefully someone on this site can give you some advice. Please keep us updated.

Warmly, geally

Hiya.. sorry to hear of your current situation.  I also can't offer much in the way of help, but I would take the suggestion of contacting your representitive.  It seems to be the only thing you can do.  Is there any way of appealing their decision aside from involving others?  I suppose not..  I do think you did the right thing in being truthful, it's just a shame they weren't able to see you had honorable intentions.

You mentioned you'd hoped to find a way of staying there legally.. would going over on a student visa be at all doable?  I know there are work-limitations, but is it at all an option?

Anyway.. haven't got much else to offer.. hopefully others do.  I'm not very knowledgeable in the way of visas and whatnot.  Keep us posted and do check back.

Hate to say it, but this is why there are immigration laws. Telling the truth about a crime does not negate it. Before anybody gets all twisted, just remember, there was the request for "any comments" and the individual has admitted breaking the law and is now asking for help in how to circumvent the consequenses.

Think about this thread the next time you have trouble with red tape at immigration.

I slightly disagree with you. Yes, he 'committed a crime' but that was in 2001. He isn't trying to circumvent the consequences - he's asking how long those consequences should apply. Are they indefinite? I have no idea. And the reality is that IND is whimsical. I recently applied for and received my FLR(M) but back in 2001 I also overstayed my student visa. This was around 9/11 so I think immigration let me get away with it because things were so chaotic then and a lot of people weren't flying. Plus I had clear acceptance and financial information from my Uni to show I was continuing to study here.

John, you haven't told us what all you provided with you application/interview. Did you have proof of a job in the US that you would return to? Did you have letters from your UK family stating you would only be visiting and that they would be hosting you? I don't know what sort of appeal process, if any, there is. But I'd think that if you can show a stable life in the US with back-up from the UK family that you are a visitor only, then perhaps you should just re-apply in another 6 months to a year - along with contacting your Rep.

It is possible to appeal, but you would have to show very strong ties to the US in order for them to believe you would return. You have proved in the past that you cannot be trusted, and even worked illegally. I'm afraid people who work illegally like you are the reason why a lot of other Americans with boyfriends/girlfriends coming to the UK for long periods get denied. I really do think the illegal working is the main reason you got refused (or do they not know about that? You said you were 'totally honest' but didn't you have no choice about that after your ex ratted you out)?
If you were applying for settlement I think you would stand a better chance. Afterall by refusing someone who wants to settle with a UK partner, the IND are punishing the UK partner too. In your case, they probably thought you had no real compelling reason to come back to the UK. Visiting rights just aren't as important as marriage rights. You'd find the same if you were British wanting to come back to the US. In fact I think I'm right in saying you would have been banned from the US for overstaying. There are set limits of 3 years, 10 years etc for overstaying by more than 180 days, for fraud etc.
I think the UK has a more flexible policy rather than set bans for set 'crimes.' In your case they seem to have decided not to be lenient with you. It might be an idea for you to request a rough timeframe for when it might be possible to apply again: 2 years, 3, 5?

Perhaps there is a way to exploit the UK's membership of the EU.

its just a thought, and i am English and i really dont know, I am just mentioning it because it was the first thing i thought after reading your post.

I also know after reading your post that you WILL be back in the UK because you will just keep knocking until they let you in!

take care and good luck.

Greetings all, and many thanks for the replies, I've just read through them all.  I wanted to answer a few questions that had come up.

In terms of the illegality of working - yes, I take full responsibility of the fact that I indeed knew what I was doing was wrong, and tried to make every effort to right that.  I'd explained this to a school I'd worked with, and they were considering hiring me as a 'specialist' because I spoke American English, which some of the students prefered, especially the Korean and Japanese students who needed business English.  (I'd been working as an ESL teacher.)  The great irony of all is that I was one of the best teachers the school had hired, and I paid taxes for every pound I made, at the higher 'temporary' rate.  So you see, I was truly stuck - I had a fiance in England, wanted quite desperately to remain with him, but since the UK doesn't recognise same gender partnerships UNDER 2 years of co-habitation, I was kinda screwed.  Yet, I very much wanted to work legally, and was trying very hard to reconcile that when I was denied entry.  In any event, that's all done with now, water under the bridge.

When I applied for the entry clearance, I provided original copies of all my bank statements, balances, verification of my employment, and recent promotion to a higher position in the company - no letters from family/friends in the UK were required, just names and addresses and numers, so I wasn't aware that I could submit them.  None of my references were checked, my employer was not contacted.  So, if they had tried to actually verify anything, the effort wasn't made.  I know that I'm dealing with a situation that is SUPPOSED to be objective, but is highly subjective.  It all comes down to the opinion of the immigration officer, and what you present to them.

I have hoped that the EU situation would perhaps better my situation, but I'm not sure it can, since there is no way for me to be granted an EU passport.  It seems the concensus I get generally is that I have to wait and try again, that's all there is to it... and hopefully be better prepared for refusal again.

The sad part about it is that immigration essentially destroyed my relationship - and now I can't even go back and collect my belongings from this shattered enagagement.  I know that these issues are of no interest to the home office, but they are important to me, and to many others that have found themselves deeply involved with someone who happened to be born in a different place.  We all know the score - if I had ALOT of money, I'd be let in without problem, even the immigration rules clearly state this.  Oh, if England only knew how many young men are staying in their country to escape mandatory military service in Greece, Poland and Israel... I have at least 5 friends who paid-off doctors in those countries to say that their son was 'mentally ill' so that they could study endlessly in London and avoid that service.  So, you can see, I do not understand the concept of justice... I'm not saying that working was right, but I am saying that comparatively speaking, my sin of working for nine months part time and paying taxes on that money is a pretty damn small bit of water in the bucket - and not something I should have to pay for with so much misery.

But, as long as I remain honest, I think I will eventually forge ahead.  I know - it's rather ironic - I still love that country even though it's done everything it can to keep me out - how bizarre... but as I said before, I welcome any of your thoughts, and thank you again to all those who wrote.  Maybe I'll have some good news to impart soon!

cheers,
John

Besides, working on a visitor's visa was not the only immigration crime you committed, correct?

By my view, you:

A)Entered the UK on a visitor's visa intending to settle

B)Illegally searched for work

C)Illegally worked

D)Ilegally signed a lease when you did not have settlement clearance

E)Overstayed your visa


So you see, it's not just one violation of the law-it's several.
You say that you have extended family in the UK-would any of them qualify you for a visa other than visitor's?  Why can some of your friends not collect your things?  You say that after 6 months in the UK you had lost all ties with the US, and had to "completely rebuild" a life when you returned-honestly, were I an immigration officer, I would find that very odd.  If all of your ties to the US were lost after 6 months, how mnay of them would disappear in a week or two? 

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic-I do feel bad for you.  But you had other options back then, and just because you admitted to all of your crimes doesn't make them any less serious.

Saf/Guru - It wasn't as simple as you explain it, and no, there weren't 5 instances of 'crimes committed' - I never signed a lease at any place I was staying, I didn't enter the country with the intent to reside - this is the bizarre loophole that immigration currently 'offers' to gay folks as a way of being in a partnership.  You have to tally up 2 years of co-habitation.  This can only be done through visits, enrollment in university or via a work permit.  Since I was not able to afford graduate school, and unable to find someone to sponsor me, I was there on a tourist visa.  Yes, I worked.  And yes I overstayed one of my 6-month visas by two weeks.  As for my situation in the US, when I went to begin my co-habitation as stipulated by immigration, all my belongings went into storage.  My family has split apart since the death of my mother and I have limmited contact with my father since he re-married.  You see, I was in the beginning of making my own family by entering into this relationship, just as straight couples do.  When I came back to the USA, I had one bag, and $600.  I was able to stay with my brother for 2 weeks, moved to Boston and had to find a place to live and a job in one week.  This is what I mean about having nothing to come back to.  In any event, this had nothing to do with what happend at Heathrow, my circumstances in the US were of no interest to them at all. 

Immigration often has these completely contradictory laws - for example - it's often considered a good way to build co-habitation by going to school... YET, you have to state that you have NO INTENTION of remaining in England after you finish your education - so, it's as if they're asking you to lie about being in the country, although many couples use the education issue as a way to remain.  According to the lawyer we had seen, this was the best way, and somehow that contradiction was 'ok' generally with immigration.

What I think the gist of my original post was trying to do was to find out information about what I should do next; not trying to justify my actions.  I made a heap of mistakes for which I really did not understand the consequences in the beginning.  I was told by immigration representatives in the UK that the best thing I could do was to wait, apply for a clearance, and just legally visit in order to help clear up my record.  So, I waited 18 months, applied and got denied.  It was this refusal that prompted me to post, and my following questions, (ie, when should I re-apply, etc...)  If it is a case that overstaying and working are the basis of my refusal, I was hoping to get some idea of when immigration would consider it appropriate to re-apply.  I had thought that my proof of employment, salary and record of success with my current employer and a year and a half of continuous residency in the US was enough to demonstrate that I wanted to visit, nothing more.  In my refusal it stated that the immigration officer wasn't convinced that I intended to stay the period I'd asked for, and that she wasn't convinced I wouldn't seek employment.  So, how do you tell the same truth in a more convincing way???  I just have to laugh here because when I was sent back from Heathrow in early 2003, a rather sad-faced officer looked at my face with tears streaming down and said 'Everything's going to be okay - you'll just need to apply for a clearance and you can visit.'  I guess he was just being kind to help me stop crying.

You came in as a visitor.  They stamped your passport "no recourse to employment or public funds."  And yet, you took employment.

There are consequences to each action - and sometimes those consequences mean that we don't get what we want.

Sorry if now I sound unsympathetic - but you know, when you didn't play by the rules in the first place, you can hardly turn around and say they're being unfair to you when the Consulate is well within their rights...

(puts on mod hat)
John has received several replies now of the "you've done something illegal" kind.  Clearly, he's made some ill advised choices which he regrets and has suffered greatly for as a result.  It seems to me that the gentleman knows well what his mistakes were and is seeking some helpful advice on how he can possibly rectify his situation.  Please may we try to remember this rather than crucifying the man over and over?  Many thanks.  (/modhatoff)

You say that you have extended family in the UK-would any of them qualify you for a visa other than visitor's? Why can some of your friends not collect your things? You say that after 6 months in the UK you had lost all ties with the US, and had to "completely rebuild" a life when you returned-honestly, were I an immigration officer, I would find that very odd. If all of your ties to the US were lost after 6 months, how mnay of them would disappear in a week or two?

I don't mean to sound unsympathetic-I do feel bad for you. But you had other options back then, and just because you admitted to all of your crimes doesn't make them any less serious.

Have you given these suggestions/questions any thought?

Have you tried contacting the place you worked for?  Perhaps they can arrange a work visa for you.

The place he worked for should be in BIG trouble. They should never have employed him without checking he had the right to work in the UK.

Unfortunately, it seems that the sentiments being expressed in this thread are getting a bit out of hand and I am therefore going to lock this topic.  I would suggest if anyone has some helpful advice for John that he/she send John a PM. 

John, I'm sorry that we haven't been able to give you any ideas that would help you in your situation.  I hope that you stick around and keep us up to date on your dealings with the UK Immigration people.  Best of luck that you'll get to come back to visit in the near future!