Please Help - Traveling with Certificate of Application while waiting for EEA2?

Hi,

I'm a US citizen, married to an Austrian woman, we arrived together in the UK about 7 months ago.  My wife is working here, and I entered with her as a 6 month tourist, with the intention to return back to the USA a few months later. 

As the months passed I decided to stay, and in April we both applied for the EEA1 and EEA2 residence cards.

I've received my certificate of application letter (which states that I am legally able to work in the UK and that my application is being processed).  We also requested both of our passports to be returned to us (which they have been successfully).

We are now needing to make an urgent trip to the USA next week, and I'm concerned about possible difficulties re-entering the UK.  I've been told me a couple of solicitors here in London that I am perfectly legal to re-enter with my wife as long as she is exercising her treaty rights in the UK (which she is).  We'll be traveling with our marriage certificate, the COA letter, her employment contract, and our current lease here in London.

However I have also been told (and the UKBA tells you this when they return your passports to you) that the technically "correct" thing to do, is for me to apply for an EEA family permit while out of the UK next week, and then return here with it (we are there for 10 days so I could have it expedited and probably have it on time).

Does anybody have any first-hand experience with this?  Am I doomed to be denied boarding or entry to the UK with her if I don't get an EEA Family Permit next week???  I've heard that the more difficult part can be boarding the plane on the way back into the UK without a particular visa.  (We are flying Delta, from JFK to Heathrow).

I am quite uneasy about this, and any first-hand experiences or advice would be GREATLY appreciated.

Many Thanks

-Dave

Hi there,

 I think I should be able to help, according to EU law you are not required the actual physical documentation (ie, EEA Family Permit, EEA2) to be considered a lawful EEA family member resident of a EEA citizen exercising their EEA rights in the UK.  That being said it does make life a heck a lot easier by having that documentation in your passport but getting an EEA Family Permit is not necessary since you've already applied for the EEA2.

Since you already have your EEA2 COA and proof of your wife exercising her right that's more than enough to be able to get in and out... especially as again they are not legally required.  It may take longer time at the border depending on who you get (I've got some great agents who really know about EU law and others who really don't) but they can't deny you unless they can prove you and your wife aren't whom you and your documents say you are. 

When I was getting my EEA2 I didn't dare leave the country without my EEA UK resident because my now husband was then just my boyfriend (had far met the requirements for being in a marriage-like relationship though) and I was worried with just my COA and no marriage certificate they'd give me grief but in the end of the day I darn well could have.

Hi,

Thanks so much for the reply!  That's definitely re-assuring.  Do you have any specific first hand experience you can share regarding crossing the border in this situation?  (i.e. how did you fill out your landing card upon re-entry, were you questioned at all?)

I'm thinking saying on the landing card that we are intending to stay 4-6 months - which in reality is probably true since it's likely we'll be moving back to manhattan.  This also stems from the thought that writing a longer period of time may result in more intense questioning.

Also I'm curious if you ever experienced any difficult boarding the plane since they do a visa check there?  Or does it not matter as an American citizen since we are not considered "Visa Nationals"?

Thanks a lot!

They don't do a visa check before you get on the plane, all they do is a passport check to confirm your identity. I've traveled twice on my residence visa, and no one's looked at the sticker in my passport, just at my picture page. It's at passport control at the border that you hand over BRP/residence card/passport open to sticker page and answer questions (and provide supporting documentation, if necessary).

Hi,

Thanks so much for the reply!  That's definitely re-assuring.  Do you have any specific first hand experience you can share regarding crossing the border in this situation?  (i.e. how did you fill out your landing card upon re-entry, were you questioned at all?) Well the thing is to fill out a landing card for the UK, because after the first time you enter with your EEA2 resident card then you do not need to fill out a landing card again (for entering UK).  The few times I had filled out a landing card, one time I was forced to by the border agent as he didn't know the law and didn't want to know the law I put my length of stay is indefinite and had no problem with it, that's the point of getting a residency card.  For you I'd either just stay indefinite as well or "application of residency submitted for intention of indefinite stay".  I think it's weirder to say you are in application of a residency card and only planning to stay 4 months, you never know what happens you might stay longer than you think and you definitely don't want to enter the UK as saying you're just a tourist, be honest that you are going back to the UK to live (and work) with your EEA National.

I'm thinking saying on the landing card that we are intending to stay 4-6 months - which in reality is probably true since it's likely we'll be moving back to manhattan.  This also stems from the thought that writing a longer period of time may result in more intense questioning.Hmm, then why are you applying for your EEA2 if you plan on leaving in 4-6 months anyway? If this is definite then why not just get the EEA Family Permit and cancel the EEA2 application, the EEA Family Permit is good for 6 months and turn around should be about a week were the EEA2 has been known to take over 6 months to be processed (although it's technically not legal for them to take that long)

Also I'm curious if you ever experienced any difficult boarding the plane since they do a visa check there?  Or does it not matter as an American citizen since we are not considered "Visa Nationals"? Yes I've never ever had any problem boarding a plane/train etc coming in to London. I only show my residence card at the UK border usually although once and awhile when checking in at the airport from the US they have looked at my residency card after asking me where I lived but it was a glance look (I'm sure they aren't concerened and don't have a clue about them anyway).  So maybe they may want to see your certificate of application at check-in but I sincerely doubt it.  Only minor discomfort I ever have had was at the customs in the UK as told above but that was due to that particular agent's arrogance and aggressiveness and faulty training on the UKBA part not because anything was wrong on mine.  Gosh I wish I could have seen the look on his face when he was retrained on EU immigration law (which I know happened last year) and realized that he was WRONG  

One thing I do since that time, is keep bookmarked relevant UKBA legislation from their UKBA webpage on my phone in case an agent is not aware or practicing the law on EEA nationals and their non-EEA family members I can enlighten them

Thanks a lot!

You do have to fill out a landing card every time even if you live in the UK. If you don't hold a UK or EU passport, you fill one out.

You will have to complete a landing card, unless:

you hold a passport issued in the EU or EEA; or

your final destination is not the UK, the Channel Islands, the Isle of Man or the Republic of Ireland (known as the common travel area) and you do not need to go through immigration controls to continue your journey.

A landing card must be fully completed for each passenger who has a passport issued outside the EU or EEA. This includes children.

Geeta -- that's no longer true. I'm not sure when the rule changed exactly (1- 1-1/2 years ago?) but I'm in the UK under EAA rules and don't have to fill out a landing card anymore. I also can enter via the EU/UK line on my American passport.

Well, that's taken directly from the UKBA site.

Well, that's taken directly from the UKBA site.

Sigh.... this is the problem people always giving misinformation, even the UKBA agents sometimes.

And I quote directly from UKBA policy and law:
"As a family member has a right to admission and residence simply by virtue of proving that he/she is, or has been, the family member of an EEA national with a right to reside it is considered unduly onerous to require holders of family permits and residence cards to submit any form of additional documentation, including a landing card.
However, this does not apply when a person’s claim to be a family member is assessed and accepted for the first time at port and the person is admitted on a Code 1A (see paragraph 5.3). This is because we do not otherwise have a record of the person."

Like I said, I keep this stuff bookmarked so I can happily inform the uninformed.    It has been this way since the EEA/EU law came to pass in the UK (2006) it's just the UK border agents were not trained properly on it again until last year and if you aren't searching for this specifically on the UKBA website the websites jargon on landing cards alone can be misleading (what a non-EEA famliy member has to remember, is as long as your EEA family member is exercising their treaty rights, the border should be treating you the same way they would treat an EU citizen, yes you can go in to the UK/EEA immigration line if you have the residency card, I have had this confirmed in writing by the UKBA).

Here's essentially the UKBA agents training manual on EEA immigrants and their family members in case you need to see it with your own eyes (5.2.1 is the quote above)
http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/policyandlaw/IDIs/idischapter7/section3/section3.pdf?view=Binary

In fact the UKBA website had, and has since disappeared shockingly , a page confirming that they had been making non-EEA family members of EEA citizens illegally fill out the landing cards and stamping their passports and that they were retraining the agents regarding. 

They are not supposed to do either by law, but I've only had a handful know about that stamp and not stamp my passport every time I come in.  Once recently an agent saw my US passport and said "you need a landing card for that" and I right away said "no I don't" and showed him my EEA2.  He chuckled and said "okay you're right, you enjoyed that didn't you?" HA yes I did! 

Sigh.... this is the problem people always giving misinformation, even the UKBA agents sometimes.

You're right. It is a problem when the UKBA site directly contradicts itself.

Thanks for all your help.  Ok so I will make sure to fill out a landing card (since I don't have my residence card yet), and will state that I've applied for a residence card with the intention of remaining indefinitely.

as for the relevant UK legislation, good idea with bookmarking that on your phone - I can imagine the less experienced immigration officers don't always remember all of these things.  I'll keep section 5 bookmarked I suppose.  Unless there's one particular clause that you would recommend regarding free movement rights/admission as a non-EEA family member of an EEA national exercising treaty rights?

Davetpd - yes, fill out the landing card and state that you are a resident, because that's what you are, at least for now. It doesn't matter what your future plans are since, those could change. With your certificate of application letter, you'll be fine.