My head says yes, my heart says no

Hi,

I am in major turmoil about whether or not to finish the green card process.  Any advice would be greatly appreciated.  My husband (UKC) and I (USC, but soon to be dual UKC) are in the middle of applying for the green card.  We started the process a while ago when I was really homesick upon first moving to the UK.  Three years later, I'm not sure how I feel about moving back to the states and whether or not we should finish the application process (we have until June to finish or cancel).

We will be leaving the UK regardless, but our decision is between moving to the US or elsewhere in Europe (most likely Spain as we've lived there before).  We are leaving the UK because we have had terrible luck with jobs and finances the whole time here (lived with his parents for two years of it).  I love the UK so very, very much, but we just can't seem to make a living here.

We are TEFL teachers, so we have worked abroad before and know that this is a financially secure, stress-free option in Europe, so that is really tempting us over the US.  I am so scared about moving to the US because it is more expensive than the UK and the health insurance factor terrifies me (I am a Floridian and my state is unpredictable when it comes to the ACA).

However, we have already gone through most of the green card process, everything except for the interview.  I know that we can no longer stay in the UK because we can't afford it here, but I am worried the US could be an even worse situation.  As TEFL teachers in the US / UK, we are usually paid per hour on 0-hour contracts, so it is never really a livable wage unless you are outside of the UK / US.  There are more lucrative opportunities in TEFL in the UK and US, but we would need more education, qualifications, and/or experience for most of these options.  We've only just paid off our student debts, and there is no way we'd be willing to take on more debt, so we are a bit stuck.

If we go back to the US, we will most likely struggle (like we have for the past three years to get me UK citizenship), but my husband's immigration situation with the US if precarious, and we are nervous that if we don't go ahead and do it now, we may never have the opportunity to go to the US in the future (we never qualify financially for these things and can only use my parents as a joint sponsor before they retire in a couple of years).

The other day I actually created a risk-assessment for our US move and came up with a 50 / 50 score.  Dead even for moving v. not moving.  No wonder why we go back and forth everyday.  I just don't want to go to the US and it be another three years of struggling, but this may be our only window.  If I give this up now, we may never have the option to go to the US in the future, which equally saddens and terrifies me.  My family is aging and I have been away from the US for most of my 20s (I left at 22).  Although I don't want to go back now, realistically, this may be our only shot.

I am so thankful we stuck it out here for me to get UK citizenship in spite of our financial difficulties.  Is that a sign that the US will be worth it too?  Should we put our lives on hold for another three years to accomplish this (we are 29 and 32)?  Our whole life together and careers are based on working and living in non-English speaking countries, but we don't want this to exclude us from our home countries and we are so sick of worrying about visas and time frames.  It seems like immigration has controlled our lives since we've met, and it really stresses us out because we like to travel and only ever make enough money to get by, so we never qualify for visas (or the process is extremely nerve-wracking and difficult).

Sorry for the rant, but I feel so sorry for my wonderful husband having to listen to me debate the options, so I was hoping someone else out there may have had similar thoughts or experiences.  Any advice at all would be very appreciated.

Thanks,
Kathryn

I'm interested in what you say about working as a TEFL teacher in the UK. Where are you living that you've had such a hard time finding jobs? What qualifications do you think you'd need to get better ones?

I work in Bournemouth, and have done since 2009. I did go through a brief period like what you describe, short contracts and no security, but down here once you get in with a school, spend a year or two paying your dues, you can pretty much work year round. And if for some reason your school is low on students another one will be able to hire you. My school has several teachers either on permanent contracts or employed basically the whole year. Maybe a different area of the UK would work better for you? My experience of TEFL outside the UK suggests that you don't want to get into it if you're looking for permanency. Dodgy schools and dodgier contracts, grim living conditions, etc. YMMV of course, but honestly, if TEFL is your career, there's not really anyplace better than the UK.

I think that if you genuinely think you and your husband will want the opportunity to live in the US in the future, now is the time while you have a sponsor.

The ACA has not fixed US healthcare: it has not come close.  It has fixed pre-existing conditions, and the subsidies mean that low income folk can now buy individual plans with no medical underwriting.  Those are great things.  People are no longer slaves to employer insurance.

BUT ... and this is a big but.   Even if you have health insurance it often will not pay much until you've paid $5k-$10k per year.   Add to that much narrower provider networks and the very real possibility of being balance billed by an out of network provider (even at an in network hospital/clinic) and any injury or illness can still stick you with $10k+ of out of pocket costs.   In fact a major accident or illness could easily result in multiples of $10k out of pocket - even if you are insured.   These bills are NOT subsidized for lower income earners.

And that's not counting insurance just refusing to pay for things until you drag them through appeals.   I had to float $2k for 4 months while Anthem dragged their feet on a bill they should obviously have paid upfront.

I have a good job and a good income but we could easily lose 3-5 years of savings if anyone in the family got sick or injured.  Touch wood we're all healthy.

For this reason I'm planning to move back to the UK this summer (my home country) and I doubt I'll ever return to the US.   My salary will be lower in the UK and cost of living in the UK is higher, but in the UK you can plan for the future without the risk that a medical bill will come out of left field and wipe you out.

Until there is SERIOUS medical payment reform (included legislated caps on inflated bills, balance bills, and much smaller out of pocket payments) then being middle class in the US will continue to be a life of crossing your fingers and hoping.   Life's too short IMO.

There is also a lot more to life than healthcare.  You can't say someone shouldn't move to be near family and support simply because the medical insurance might be an obstacle.

The NHS is not without fault.  i think you'll find a very different level of care than when you left.

There is also a lot more to life than healthcare.  You can't say someone shouldn't move to be near family and support simply because the medical insurance might be an obstacle.

The NHS is not without fault.  i think you'll find a very different level of care than when you left.

Good point. And again, healthcare is not free in the UK. It comes from taxes....which come from your pay check.

I think that if you genuinely think you and your husband will want the opportunity to live in the US in the future, now is the time while you have a sponsor.

I suspect KFdancer is right. If this is your window for gaining another option (both of you living in the USA in the future), then go for it. Better to have two options, Europe and the US, rather than one.

If you decide you must start over somewhere besides the UK anyway, that is. But it's your head and your heart.

I'm sure the NHS has changed in the last 20 years.   But so has US healthcare.  When I moved to the US 20 years ago you got insurance through your job paid a few hundred a month (if that) and insurance paid your medical expenses.   In the last 10-15 years medical costs have grown so much faster than inflation in the US that MOST healthcare policies now have such large out of pocket costs that they are essentially catastrophic coverage only.

Sure you can budget for this, or if you don't have much money you can simply declare bankruptcy if you get hit with large out of pocket bills that you can't pay.

The ACA is a small step in the right direction, but anyone who has been out of the US for 10 years or more and is planning to return should be aware that the ACA has not fixed US healthcare and that multiple thousand dollar out of pockets are now the norm.   Honestly I don't know how most Americans with below average incomes can pay the huge copays/deductibles/balance bills.   I suspect the answer is that most can't and so they avoid going to the doctor unless it's an emergency.

I really enjoy living here in Massachusetts (well apart from the last month's weather) so it pains me to move away, but honestly I feel like I'm living with the sword of Damocles over my head.  I've given up skiing and mountain biking and I cross my fingers that my daughter doesn't injure herself at gymnastics because I'm nearly certain my out of pocket costs would be over $10k if we injured ourselves.  (on top of the $1200 a month I pay for insurance.)

This is not how US healthcare was 15 years ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/unable-to-meet-the-deductible-or-the-doctor.html?_r=0

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/01/01/middle-class-workers-struggle-to-pay-for-care-despite-insurance/19841235/

I'm inclined to agree with sdt99.  I just paid over $1000 for DS's copays and deductibles for just the past few months.  He has a job and health insurance but it's not enough.  If I didn't pay it he'd be in debt.  Another point is that doctors do not have to accept patients with less-favoured insurance or even Medicare.  You could be forced to see a PCP in an inconvenient locale.

Maybe healthcare isn't everything but it is a major consideration.

This is a really tough call.  I've been there.

Eight or nine years ago now we were at a point where one of us had to move to the other's country.  We both assumed, at the time, that I would go to his (Sweden) because they let in practically everyone with any sort of tie to the country and cmon, Sweden, right!?  On a whim I had him apply for the US Diversity Visa Lottery, not expecting anything out of that.  Oh but fate had a different plan and his name was pulled and he had the chance to jump to the head of the green card line.

I didn't really want to continue living in the US, and had always wanted to move back to Europe/UK but the rational part of me said this was something that he needed to do for a variety of reasons - better employment market, housing, chance for him to finish university, etc.  I reasoned that we would do the time in the US for him to get citizenship, that Europe would always be there, etc.  At the time I was also in the midst of moving back to my home state, and was unemployed.

So we agreed for him to accept the GC and move to the US - my parents served as sponsors.  And for the next SIX YEARS (we aren't married so he had a 5 year period) I felt uneasy - always waiting for my career to start, always wishing I was somewhere else, trying to make the best of places that are lovely places to live but just didn't feel like home.  The economic crash happened, setting us back another year.  But we made it in the end and he is now a US citizen too and looking back we achieved a lot of what we set out to do during that time, but sometimes I also feel like I wasted a lot of my 30s waiting for my life to begin.

We finally moved to the UK and its been rough, and we've considered moving to Sweden for me to do time there (3 years to citizenship) but we decided not to because we didn't want to put off our dream of living in London any more (amongst plenty of other reasons from poor job market/xenophobia/weather).  And as hard as its been, it is still comforting to know that we can pick up and move at any time back to the US.  You would get both sides of your immigration situation solved in the amount of time it took us to do one.

I think what I am saying is:  its an awful dilemma, but if you recognize it for being part of your long term plan, and work to make the most of that time, once you are through the other side there is a security that can be worth it.  I'm not saying it was easy to squish down those dreams, but I also spent the time with aging relatives I hadn't seen in many years (one of whom we almost lost this week), spent time with my parents, tried new sports, did some road trips.  I took jobs that prepared me to get decent jobs here, he finished school and did work that got him a job here, etc.  We made the best of it.  Who knows what the future holds?  Having the immigration flexibility though... that is almost priceless.

What I would suggest is maybe mapping out what you would want to achieve in the next three years (short term) and the long term view.  If you went to the US, what would you want to accomplish that would set you up well for the future, either there or in your travels?  What or who would be important to you in that time?  What about work, part time or full time, that would cover your medical costs?  What about financials and retirement planning?

I would also suggest that now is probably as good as its going to get in the new economic world order to make something happen in the US.  The last three years in the UK were an economic pit - this time around you would be entering the US on an upswing - fuel prices low, unemployment coming down, base wages going up (for some) etc etc.  I'm guessing you could find something to supplement the cost of getting further education for your field or to help cover medical costs or put something away. 

Only you can make the final decision, but if it were me I would head to the US and get it over and done with.  Three years is almost nothing in the grand scheme of things, but use the time wisely and you could have yourself set up well for the long term.

Thank you all so much for replying.  I wasn't expecting to get such wonderful responses.  It was interesting to hear from another TEFL teacher in the UK.  I'm currently in London, so employers can get away with murder here as there are more than enough teachers to go around.  I have been offered jobs elsewhere in the UK, but the problem always is that it is never enough money to move (I've been offered between 6 and 15 hours a week, but never a full time gig).  historyenne, you are definitely right that you need to pay your dues at a school for a couple of years to get something good.  The problem is that I haven't found a job where I can "pay my dues" and also survive on the low pay.  It's great to hear that you've found a good deal in Bournemouth.  That does give me hope for the future.

It was interesting hearing about all of the responses to healthcare.  This has been and remains to be our biggest concern.  Our professions are part time in nature, so getting health insurance through work is a long shot. We will definitely have to use "Obama care."  I am thankful that there is now a lower cost option for us (I mean lower cost only as in monthly payments, I know overall it can still put people in serious debt if there is a major illness) because if it didn't exist, we just wouldn't buy health insurance or just have a catastrophic plan (which some people say Obama care is anyway).  However, I have heard about so many problems with the new system that it makes me worried that this has not been the fix everyone was hoping for.  Nevertheless, something is better than nothing I guess.  I haven't been in the US since I was on my parents' health care plan, so it is definitely scary.  I don't want to live in fear of having to go to the doctor, but if we go back, at least it won't be for the long term.  I guess we will just have to keep our fingers crossed and not do anything too reckless.

Thank you to the several people who brought up that it is better to have an option rather than no option.  This has truly been one of the deciding factors in the US's favour.  You are right that it is better to have the US as an option rather than possibly close it off for good.  We never know what immigration changes would happen in the near future, so I suppose it is better to get in while we can.  Incidentally, this is why we moved to the UK in the first place. We had been living in Spain and fully intended on being there for several more years when we found out that the rules were changing in July 2012.  On the new rules (as many of you know, it now takes 5 years for citizenship and the financial requirements have gone through the roof), we would have had difficulty getting the visa due to financial reasons and we didn't want to have to commit for 5 years as we like to change countries a lot.  We got in about 6 days before the new rules and I am so thankful we did it.  I guess we can never know when the US, might change their rules.  After all, it nearly happened to us once with the UK.

Finally, BertineC, thank you very much for your heartfelt response.  It is great to hear from someone who has been through this same situation.  You made me realise what a great opportunity we have.  I hadn't really looked at the situation positively until you helped me to see that there are a lot of good reasons to move back now.  I didn't consider the fact that the economic situation isn't as bad as it's been, so we may have a better shot at jobs than we would have in recent years.  Who knows, the US could even be on an upswing like you said.  Also, you made me realise how fortunate I am to be able to get all of this done for both countries in only 6 years.  I completely identify with you when you said sometimes you felt like you were waiting for life to begin.  I feel that way too, but you are right that one day when you look back, it will all be worth it.  Thank you for the advice about short term and long term goals.  It is definitely a good idea to see how the US could set us up for our next move.  We are considering getting K-12 teaching certificates (we only have TEFL certificates) or even going back to grad school (I have an M.A. in English and have always wanted to continue).  There are many things we could do to help us later on down the line.  Although we are wary of taking on any student debt, I could at least try for funding and then make a decision if I'm rejected.  I should at least try a few different paths and see what comes back.  I'm glad that everything worked out for you in the end.  Thank you for sharing your experience (and wisdom) with me.

My husband and I have had a lot of very long talks this past week about this decision and we decided that we will definitely give America a go.  We're already nearly finished with the green card process anyway.  I think you all are right that I should just get it done while I have the chance.  There are still a lot of things that worry us about the move, but I suppose it is worth giving it a shot.  If it doesn't work out, then we have a lot of really great back-up plans.  We've actually decided to go a bit sooner, so we break up the move in two trips over six months.  That way, we can get the ball rolling with the green card (and start the citizenship clock), but can come back to save some more in the UK.  Plus, we haven't been back to the US together in about 5 years, so it would be good for us to have a "scouting" trip before the big move and maybe even try to make some job connections for the future.

Thank you all very much for your responses.  You have really brought a lot of considerations to the forefront and gave us so many different angles to consider.  Now that we've "officially" made our decision, I feel as if a weight has been lifted off of my shoulders.  I am actually starting to look forward to being close to friends and family and getting excited about new areas we can explore or live in.  Most things in life require a risk and this is one risk that we are going to take. 

Thanks again and best wishes,

Kathryn

 You both sound adventurous and seems like you have worked it out so you can continue to have adventures! Best of luck to you as the continue! 

I missed this thread, but I just wanted to wish you good luck on your next adventure!