All this anti-immigrant stuff is scaring the crap outta me

I just firmly believe that if money is free to move around the world, and goods and services - if globalisation can be made to work - then freedom of movement must be a central tenet.

I just firmly believe that if money is free to move around the world, and goods and services - if globalisation can be made to work - then freedom of movement must be a central tenet.

Can't see that happening. Every country would then have to be pretty well exactly alike....same health systems.....same pay for jobs....same cost for housing....etc etc. Total freedom of movement would cause absolute chaos. Everybody would need to be the same as well.....same motivation....same skills....same chance in school.....kind of sounds like a SciFi movie. Will it happen some day a zillion years from now?.....who knows.

Can't see that happening. Every country would then have to be pretty well exactly alike....same health systems.....same pay for jobs....same cost for housing....etc etc. Total freedom of movement would cause absolute chaos. Everybody would need to be the same as well.....same motivation....same skills....same chance in school.....kind of sounds like a SciFi movie. Will it happen some day a zillion years from now?.....who knows.

We have a lot of work yet to do, it's true.

But literacy rates are much better now all around the world....vaccines and such have helped boost global health. Women's issues...so important for economic and social progress are being loudly trumpeted, and more-and-more acted upon. We can communicate a lot better now.

Look, there's this idea that everyone wants to move somewhere else....I  think a lot of people are happy as can be right where they are....most people perhaps. Family connections are important for instance. So I think if you did drop borders right at this moment....most would probably stay right where they are....heck it's where they have a job.

So who is moving about? Or who would? Displaced people. People under threat of violence. People with no hope of bettering themselves financially. These things can be addressed.

But you know, you can look at the EU, say Polish immigrants....it is true that many moved to the UK seeking better conditions. But the flow has slowed to a trickle. Many have moved back. Some sort of equilibrium has been reached.

Perfect Strangers

Balki just shows up one day in Chicago.....

That's ridiculous

Best immigration reference.
My two cents (pence?)
My husband has never really had any attitude or issue here and we live in a town that is VERY anti immigration for many reasons. We have a high level of undocumented immigrants and the long standing american residents are very rude and intolerant. ( i understand to some degree with how much money we've spent to do it properly, but anyway)He's always been treated like he is fancy, it's assumed he came here to work. He's a mechanic from yorkshire, his family lives in the Hull area, he isn't fancy. It's been hilarious at times. 
It generally comes down to being "the right kind" of immigrant, as someone earlier mentioned.
I assume I will be asked if I had guns in America and other silly questions as he's been asked all sorts of stereotypical questions too.
My mother in law said "people won't guess you're american, your accent is soft. "  I am not sure what that means exactly, but I assume I will be fine as I tend to avoid political discussions and talking openly with strangers. I hope so anyway!

But you know, you can look at the EU, say Polish immigrants....it is true that many moved to the UK seeking better conditions. But the flow has slowed to a trickle. Many have moved back. Some sort of equilibrium has been reached.

This is based on what info? Not saying you are wrong.....I'm just wondering where you are receiving your info. Is the "equilibrium" based on normal adjustments?......or on tighter immigration controls? Or better choices somewhere else?

Best immigration reference.
My two cents (pence?)
My husband has never really had any attitude or issue here and we live in a town that is VERY anti immigration for many reasons. We have a high level of undocumented immigrants and the long standing american residents are very rude and intolerant. ( i understand to some degree with how much money we've spent to do it properly, but anyway)He's always been treated like he is fancy, it's assumed he came here to work. He's a mechanic from yorkshire, his family lives in the Hull area, he isn't fancy. It's been hilarious at times. 
It generally comes down to being "the right kind" of immigrant, as someone earlier mentioned.
I assume I will be asked if I had guns in America and other silly questions as he's been asked all sorts of stereotypical questions too.
My mother in law said "people won't guess you're american, your accent is soft. "  I am not sure what that means exactly, but I assume I will be fine as I tend to avoid political discussions and talking openly with strangers. I hope so anyway!

Being the "right" kind of immigrant (white and native English speaker) is definitely advantageous over here too.  Everyone is always thrilled to hear about where I'm from and asks me why on earth is want to live in a dismal place like Wales. Meanwhile I have heard a work colleague complain about immigrants generally in her hometown, particularly Eastern European ones, right in front of me. There was an awkward moment where she realised that I was also an immigrant.


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Many of our customers in the library, especially those of the older generation, will tell me that I am the 'right' kind of immigrant or tell me that they don't mean me when they are complaining about immigration.  I have just begun to answer with 'that's not how immigration works' and leave it at that.  It really does annoy me.

Most people with whom I have spoken are surprised to hear how stringent the rules are.  It does surprise me how uninformed people can be about the immigration process.  Even my husband's family couldn't believe that I couldn't just join him immediately.  They just assumed that nothing had changed since the 50s when the husband's great-aunt married an Italian, moved immediately to Italy, and automatically gained Italian citizenship.  IF ONLY!

Even my husband's family couldn't believe that I couldn't just join him immediately.  They just assumed that nothing had changed since the 50s when the husband's great-aunt married an Italian, moved immediately to Italy, and automatically gained Italian citizenship.  IF ONLY!

According to this article, Argentina works that way today, and much of Europe did too, prior to the first world war.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/17/8980161/angela-merkel-crying-girl

There are a lot of interesting points about immigration restrictions and open borders in there.

People often forget that restrictive borders of the sort that Merkel is selectively enforcing here are a very modern development, and in Europe were basically a side effect of the outbreak of World War I.

The 19th century era of mass emigration — largely to America, but also between European countries — resulted not in disaster but in huge gains for all involved. It led to improved conditions for immigrant families and faster economic growth for the native-born population.

It wasn't the one about folk from Yorkshire having short arms and deep pockets was it ?  That's the one that I always remember (my family are from Pontefract originally)

I think you might have it.  He certainly wasn't an original type of guy so an old joke fits the bill in this case

This is based on what info? Not saying you are wrong.....I'm just wondering where you are receiving your info. Is the "equilibrium" based on normal adjustments?......or on tighter immigration controls? Or better choices somewhere else?

Here's something from the ONS:

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/august-2011/polish-people-in-the-uk.html

But a lot of sources show this sort of initial "bulge"....with a sloping drop-off. But I don't want to make a hardcore assertion about EU migration...nor try and use it to make some bigger point about immigration worldwide. Just that it is of interest.

Presently, the entirety of Romania is not flooding into the UK (though numbers are, of course, up). Perhaps Romanian immigration will follow suit. 

But with Poland....it seems pretty natural....I mean there have been no restrictions put in place or anything. And I believe the decrease began before any sort of benefit reform (pull factor stuff) began.

I do get tired of comments about gun control, however.

I think the reason for this is that when Brits meet Americans (whether US tourists in UK or while on holiday in America) they overwhelmingly find them warm, friendly and thoughtful (Brits' views of American people contrast markedly with their views of the American government - so anti-American sentiment is almost always aimed at the US government, rarely at the people).

Brits then have great difficulty squaring the character of the Americans they meet with the gun laws that to a Brit seem absolutely bonkers and based on an incredible misinterpretation of the second amendment (I refer to the well regulated militia bit, of course).

This isn't helped by news coverage which makes it seem as if Americans spend every day dodging bullets.  Many years ago my parents were asked (while on holiday in the USA) if they were afraid of IRA attacks, since they lived close (30 miles) to London: similar deal: it's what makes news.

In short - don't take it personally, it's just that the vast majority of Brits are utterly baffled by US gun laws because they seem so out of character with the Americans they meet.

Even during the era when immigration was far less restrictive in the US, folk weren't always allowed in. Roughly 2% of the 12 million who passed through the entry port of Ellis Island were refused. While that ratio is not overly high, it still represents nearly a quarter of a million who were sent back to wherever for medical conditions and other reasons.

Here's something from the ONS:

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/migration1/migration-statistics-quarterly-report/august-2011/polish-people-in-the-uk.html

But a lot of sources show this sort of initial "bulge"....with a sloping drop-off.

I "think" this bulge is exactly what I am talking about. If there are no controls on the movement of people through the EU (or everywhere in the world if you expand the theory), then if people "hear" there are jobs in Germany (or the UK, or Norway etc etc) there would be a big flux of people to that country hoping for a job. Eventually things will even out, at least a little bit, but the country where people are heading is going to get hammered for at least a few years until there is a "new" source of jobs somewhere else. In the case of Polish coming to the UK.....would there have been a bigger bulge without any controls at all? I would think so.