Hello from Oregon; hopefully to the UK by summer 2017; with visa questions too

Hello all and thanks in advance for any advice.

We are an American family from Oregon; my spouse has dual citizenship (American/Irish) through ancestry. With this same ancestry, he is eligible to apply for the UK Ancestry Visa.

My understanding is that his spouse/partner and children under 18 can apply for the EEA Family permit.  I'm wanting to verify this and the process.

Next, we have temporary legal custody of our niece who is currently 16 years old. In about 1 1/2 years, we would like to go to the UK. Our youngest daughter (who would be 16) and our niece (who would be 18) would like to go to state-funded sixth form colleges. Our youngest wants to attend a sixth form college with an IB program; we have a few that we'd like to apply to. Our niece has learning disabilities and will not be ready to go to a university. She also will not be ready/able to live independently and does not have the resources to do so.  She would like to find a sixth form college with a photography program.

Next - I'm a civil servant and can take early retirement in about 1 1/2 years with pension.  We will have sufficient funds to live without working, but ideally would like to (eventually) find some free-lance or part-time work to supplement our retirement savings.

Questions: what visa could we or should we get for our niece? Would it have to be the student visa tier 4? Or could she also get the EEA Family permit?

Also, has anyone had their children go to sixth form colleges. I understand that we will have to apply through the UCAS Progress website. Just looking for any advice on that matter.

Thanks so much!

Welcome to the forum .

We are an American family from Oregon; my spouse has dual citizenship (American/Irish) through ancestry. With this same ancestry, he is eligible to apply for the UK Ancestry Visa.

If he has Irish citizenship, he doesn't need to apply for a UK Ancestry visa - he is free to live and work in the UK just with an Irish passport.

My understanding is that his spouse/partner and children under 18 can apply for the EEA Family permit.  I'm wanting to verify this and the process.

Yes, this is correct.

If he moves to the UK using his Irish passport and is exercising EEA Treaty rights by either looking for work, working, studying or being self-sufficient, it automatically gives you the right to live and work in the UK as well, without a visa.

You would just need to apply for a free of charge 6-month EEA Family Permit, to enter the UK as the non-EEA spouse of an EEA citizen, and then once you are in the UK, you pay £55 for a 5-year EEA Residence Card.

See: https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview

thank you for your prompt reply.  What are the visa  options for my niece?  We have temporary legal custody, but not through the courts (mutual agreement by her parents and my spouse and I).  She would be 18 when we went to the UK.  She has learning delays and while she is doing very well with us, she won't be in any position to live independently nor be ready to attend a university.  We found some sixth form colleges that go from ages 16-19 that offer photography diplomas, which is her interest.  We want to help her be successful with her endeavors.

Questions: what visa could we or should we get for our niece? Would it have to be the student visa tier 4? Or could she also get the EEA Family permit?

Your daughter will be fine to get an EEA Family Permit and then the 5-year EEA residence card.

I'm not sure about your niece though - if you can show legal custody of her and that she is dependant on you, then she may be able to qualify for the EEA Family Permit and Residence Card as an extended family member:
https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/eligibility

Qualifying as an extended family member or unmarried partner

You can apply as an ‘extended’ family member’, eg brother, sister, aunt, uncle, cousin, nephew or niece.

You must be able to show that you’re dependent on the EEA citizen or are a member of their household, or have a serious health condition and rely on them to care for you.

You can also apply as an unmarried partner if you can show that you’re in a lasting relationship with the EEA national.

Extended family members and unmarried partners aren’t guaranteed to get a permit. Your individual circumstances will be considered when you apply.

If she can't qualify as an extended family member, then she may well need a Tier 4 student visa

Also, has anyone had their children go to sixth form colleges. I understand that we will have to apply through the UCAS Progress website. Just looking for any advice on that matter.

I had thought UCAS was for applications to undergraduate courses, not Sixth Form Colleges, and that to apply for Sixth Forms you just contacted the school or college directly, but looking at the UCAS site, I may be wrong. It's been 15 years since I was in Sixth Form and it seems the process may have changed since then (when I applied for university through UCAS, it was done on paper and not online, lol) .

I was under the impression that most Sixth Form Colleges mainly offered only academic courses - my Sixth Form was part of my high school and only offered A levels and GNVQs in Business and IT - but I may be out of date on that.

If your niece wishes to study Photography, I wonder if a Further Education (FE) College might have more options than a Sixth Form College, as FE Colleges offer a mixture of academic and vocational courses, and generally have a wider variety of options.

Do you know what area of the UK you would want to live in? I would suggest the best option would be to look into the Sixth Form and FE Colleges in the area and see what options for IB and Photography courses they have.

We found some sixth form colleges that go from ages 16-19 that offer photography diplomas, which is her interest.  We want to help her be successful with her endeavors.

All Sixth Form Colleges go from 16-19, because they are the last 2 years of UK high school. 'Sixth Form' is the old fashioned term for the 6th year of UK secondary/high school and it's still in use today, though the other year names have changed.

A general UK secondary school has the structure:
Year 7 - age 11-12
Year 8 - age 12-13
Year 9 - age 13/14
Year 10 - age 14/15 (first GCSE year)
Year 11 - age 15-16 (second GCSE year)

Year 12/Lower Sixth Form - age 16-17 (first A level year (AS Level))
Year 13/Upper Sixth Form - age 17-18 (second A Level year (A2 Level))

Some high schools have Years 12 and 13 (Sixth Form) as part of the same campus, while others either have a separate Sixth Form college for those years, or they just go to Year 11 and then all the students have to leave at age 16 and find a Sixth Form or FE College to attend to continue their studies.

FE Colleges also go from about 16-19, though they are more flexible on age and offer GCSE courses (which are equivalent to US high school diplomas and are taken between age 14 and 16 in high school), A Levels, vocational courses, and adult/mature student/night classes as well.

We found a couple of sixth form colleges in the Cambridge area we like (Parkside Sixth and Impington), but we are quite open to where we'd consider living.  I think that London is out of the question, due to expense.  We'd prefer a smaller city/town; one that is connected by bus/rail to other areas.  If you have any suggestions or recommendations, I'd love to hear them.

The application form is the UCAS Progress, which is for the 16-19 age group. 

Thank you for your advice on the Further Education Colleges.  I will look into them.  Thank you for the information on qualifying extended family member.  I suppose the next question we would need to get an answer to is what kind of documentation is needed.  Any thoughts on where I might get that kind of information?

Thank you again for all your information.  It's been immensely helpful.

We found a couple of sixth form colleges in the Cambridge area we like (Parkside Sixth and Impington), but we are quite open to where we'd consider living.  I think that London is out of the question, due to expense.  We'd prefer a smaller city/town; one that is connected by bus/rail to other areas.  If you have any suggestions or recommendations, I'd love to hear them.

I wouldn't want to live in London myself - I find it too busy, not to mention the high cost of living there . I'm happy to visit for a day or so, but after a few hours I find myself getting annoyed and stressed, lol

I grew up just north of Bristol (which is a lovely city), then I went to university in Exeter (also a nice city), and now I live in Lincoln for work (not as nice a city, but it's cheaper to live in).

I like the southwest, though it is a fairly pricey area of the country (though not as expensive as the south east and London), and I find Bristol is good because it's near the M4/M5 motorway interchange, so you can easily travel east to London/west to Wales, or south to Devon/north to the rest of the country .

Lincoln is more of an industrial city about 90-odd miles north of Cambridge, and is kind of in the middle of nowhere and therefore more difficult to get to than other areas. There's also not a whole lot of opportunity there, or much to do! However, house prices here are about half that of Bristol, and about 1/3 of the price of houses in Cambridge, so I'm planning to buy a house here in the next few months .

The application form is the UCAS Progress, which is for the 16-19 age group.

 

Ah, yes - I saw that on the site when I checked. That option wasn't even available when I was looking at Sixth Form and FE colleges back in 1998/1999... in fact, I'm not even sure they had a decent website back then ... I remember having to print off the application form and write it by hand, lol.

Thank you for your advice on the Further Education Colleges.  I will look into them.

No problem . A good proportion of UK 16-19 year-old attend FE colleges and Sixth Forms. My high school year had about 200 students in it. Of those 200, about 100 stayed on to study A Levels at our school's Sixth Form, while the other 100 either went to FE Colleges or other Sixth Form Colleges, or they went into full-time employment/work-based training.

Back then, high school was only compulsory to the age of 16, and then you could choose to leave and enter full-time employment if you wanted to, but since 2013, the UK government have made it mandatory for all school children to remain in education or training until they are 18.

I suppose the next question we would need to get an answer to is what kind of documentation is needed.  Any thoughts on where I might get that kind of information?

All the information will be on the UKVI website, via the links I gave above, as that is the official government documentation.

Information about documents is here: https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/documents-you-must-provide

And also, more thorough guidance on EEA Family Permits and extended family members is here:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/eea-family-permits-eun02/eea-family-permit-eun02#eun27-who-are-an-eea-nationals-extended-family-members

Cambridge Regional College has this offering:

http://www.camre.ac.uk/course-search-results

The  college caters to a wide range of students, takes school leavers (16-19) and other ages, and has a lot of different vocational courses.

Thank you.  We found a sixth form college with a fantastic photography program.  The name of the college is Long Road (in Cambridge).  The sixth form college with an IB curriculum we are looking at for our daughter is called Parkside Sixth, also in Cambridge.  We realize that this is an expensive area to live, but assume that there must be some smaller towns nearby connected by rail.  We've sent inquiries to these schools.  So far we've heard back from Parkside Sixth, but not Long Road.

I did look briefly at Cambridge Regional College.  I haven't yet found photography studies, but they may have something there.

With regard to the EEA Family Permit (and this information may be on the website), do we apply for that in the UK when we decide to relocate or before we leave? 

*Actually as I read it, it looks like we apply from outside of the UK...do you know how far in advance we can get the EEA Family Permit?  That part doesn't seem clear to me.

Thanks!

*Actually as I read it, it looks like we apply from outside of the UK...do you know how far in advance we can get the EEA Family Permit?  That part doesn't seem clear to me.

You HAVE to apply for the EEA Family Permit from outside the UK, because it is only issued outside the UK (it doesn't exist as an application made inside the UK) and it's an entry permit, valid for entry into the UK.

It can be applied for up to 3 months before you wish to enter the UK and will be made valid for 6 months from the travel date you put on the online application. It's multiple-entry and you have the 6-month validity period to move once it has been issued.

Once in the UK, you can then apply for the 5-year EEA Residence Card.

Technically speaking, because your husband is an EEA citizen, you automatically have the right to live and work in the UK with him as long as he is exercising EEA Treaty Rights, so you don't legally need the EEA Family Permit.

However, you are supposed to apply for it before you travel to the UK, so that don't have problems entering the UK and you are let in as EEA family members and not as regular visitors... and also it's official proof of your right to live and work in the UK, which you will need to show to employers etc.

Hello again,
Still trying to do some research on schools (for students ages 16-18+) for my daughter and niece.  The difficulty we are coming across is that most of the further education colleges have a tuition fee above what we could afford, or because we won't meet the 3-year residency rule, would consider my niece as an international student.  The problem is that she comes from abject poverty.  That's one of the reasons why she is now under our care.  We will continue to care for her as long as needed, until she is ready to make it on her own, but can't afford 5,000 pounds/year.  I'm seeking any advice on whether there are other options out there for her.  She would be 18 years old when we relocated.  As well, she has diagnosed learning disabilities, but is making steady progress.  I am wondering what kind of assistance (educational/financial) might be available.

Thanks!

Honestly, £5,000 a year is a bargain.  It costs £9,000 a year for UK residents to attend university!

Unfortunately you will find that as she is not a UK citizen, she won't be able to receive much assistance until she holds ILR.      If she was younger and in traditional schooling, she would receive extra support in her learning.

Thank you for all of your feedback.  We are getting some good feedback from Sixth Form schools and further education colleges for our daughter and niece.  But we are also getting some conflicting information on how long we can stay and health insurance coverage.

I'm wondering if someone can either tell me, or direct me to the following information:

1. My husband, who has Irish citizenship (but lives in the USA) -- does he need to work in England?  Does he need to come with health insurance for us all, or can we able to get into the UK health care system?

2.  I would have a guaranteed pension from my job of about 20,000 sterling/year.  As well, according to our financial advisor, we can pull some of our retirement savings, as needed.  While we would ideally like to find a bit of work, it's not an absolute necessity for us staying in the UK.

3.  A question about work.  I'm a professional environmental scientist, with a specialization in recycling, waste prevention and education.  If I wanted to apply for work, can I do that as the spouse of an EU member?  Can I do that from here, or do I have to wait until I have residency?

Thanks!

But we are also getting some conflicting information on how long we can stay and health insurance coverage.

You can stay for as long as your husband is exercising his EEA Treaty Rights in the UK... your permission to live in the UK will depend entirely on him and his EEA right to live in the UK.

You should be entitled to NHS healthcare, same as everyone else, but I think you may need to show you have health insurance as part of your EEA application.

1. My husband, who has Irish citizenship (but lives in the USA) -- does he need to work in England?  Does he need to come with health insurance for us all, or can we able to get into the UK health care system?

To qualify under the EEA rules, he would need to be exercising his EEA Treaty Rights in the UK, in one of the following ways:

- working
- studying
- looking for work
- self-sufficient

2.  I would have a guaranteed pension from my job of about 20,000 sterling/year.  As well, according to our financial advisor, we can pull some of our retirement savings, as needed.  While we would ideally like to find a bit of work, it's not an absolute necessity for us staying in the UK.

Again, your husband would need to be exercising EEA Treaty Rights in the UK. If you can show that he (and the family) will be self-sufficient using your pension, then this may qualify. Otherwise, you will need to show he either has a job lined up, or will be looking for work.

3.  A question about work.  I'm a professional environmental scientist, with a specialization in recycling, waste prevention and education.  If I wanted to apply for work, can I do that as the spouse of an EU member?  Can I do that from here, or do I have to wait until I have residency?

Yes, you can work in whatever job you like, and you would be given the same opportunity as any UK or EU citizen when it comes to applying for jobs.

Thank you so much for all your help and quick response.  Is there an official UK website, or regs or something that you could recommend to us, so we can become better education on all of this? 

Regarding self-sufficiency -- where can I find out more about what that involves (i.e., how much income/earnings/savings we have to have

Thank you so much for all your help and quick response.  Is there an official UK website, or regs or something that you could recommend to us, so we can become better education on all of this? 

Regarding self-sufficiency -- where can I find out more about what that involves (i.e., how much income/earnings/savings we have to have

All the information is on the UKVI website, which I've linked to in my replies above:

EEA Family Permit: https://www.gov.uk/family-permit/overview

EEA Citizens living in the UK: https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-a-uk-residence-card/eligibility

This file mentions the EEA Treaty Rights criteria - the document itself is aimed at determining nationality of children born in the UK to EEA parents, but it still gives the definitions of each category:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/374616/TreatyRightsPolicy.pdf

From that document, regarding Self-Sufficiency:

Self-sufficient person
6.1 This category applies only to children born after 30 June 1992. A self-sufficient person is a person who does not work, but has sufficient resources to prevent him or herself (or family members) from becoming a burden on the benefit system and is covered by Comprehensive Sickness Insurance (CSI) for themselves and their family members. We cannot apply a set amount of money that is required by an EEA national in order to be considered self-sufficient. Applications should be assessed on a case-by-case basis and should take into account such factors as income against expenditure. For example, a retired person may qualify as self-sufficient if they can show that they are in receipt of pension or income from an investment not to become burden on the benefit system.

6.2 Note that Pension Credit on its own is not acceptable as proof of a pension as this is a public fund. Contribution based State Pension is an acceptable form of pension see paragraph 15 on public funds.