EU Referendum!!

Good stuff here.

I think...and this is just something I've been mulling over....that we on the left sort of caused it. In the US the left controlled the news during the 60's and 70's. And with all that was happening with Vietnam and Watergate and Civil Rights....it is understandable.

But perhaps we got a bit smug and dismissive of concerns of a big chunk of the population. So when Reagan and Gingrich and then Fox News came along and pushed back, the left reacted too with a lot of vigour. 

Again I am for remaining in the EU....but I can't dismiss you wife's concerns. And the reason I haven't felt the urge to foam at the mouth at it all is that it may well be true that Britain just plain doesn't want to be in it. We'll find out.

I still want my button of pain........
I really want to zap anybody I see on tv just speaking crazy opinions. Actually, I can't quite call them opinions.....they are just made up cow (smelly) stuff. I can't remember who it was in the news a week or two ago who stated that they were for the Remain side, but said that all the exaggerations from the Remain side were a little over the top. This person thought they were better off to stay in.....but the head honcho's on the Remain side were stating things WAY out of proportion. A person with an intelligent reasonable opinion......I can deal with that.

I personally am done voting. I don't plan on going back to the US. For tax reasons I don't think I will give up my US citizenship. Whichever way this EU thing goes.....I don't think it will make much of a difference in my life.

Along with the comments about migrants. If I her one more "...Oh! but not you! You aren't an EU immigrant so I'm not talking about YOU obviously!" I will scream.

This!

I wish I had a pound every time someone has complained about immigrants, then looks at me and says "Oh, but not you. You're different." -_-

Whichever way this EU thing goes.....I don't think it will make much of a difference in my life.

Yes, but having EU citizenship is sort of like buying a car with a sun roof. You may not open it very often, but if somebody came and sealed it up.....you'd be a little miffed.

I always had a secret vision of a little place along the coast of Italy....maybe a little wooden boat....row out and catch a few fish for a fisherman's soup....some crusty bread and a glass chilly white wine...an old straw hat and rope-soled sandals.

i don't have it in me now, after the UK system, to go through immigration again. So even if the little Italian fisherman's shack was a long shot before....if Brexit wins....it will be out of the question. 

 

i don't have it in me now, after the UK system, to go through immigration again. So even if the little Italian fisherman's shack was a long shot before....if Brexit wins....it will be out of the question.

But is it? I think a lot of it will be a massive mystery. We don't really know what will/won't happen or how things will change. I'm not advocating things one way or another, just stating that I don't think we can really say that it will be for sure out of the question. I do share your sentiment though that after dealing with the UK immigration process, I wouldn't want to do it again somewhere else!

But is it? I think a lot of it will be a massive mystery. We don't really know what will/won't happen or how things will change. I'm not advocating things one way or another, just stating that I don't think we can really say that it will be for sure out of the question. I do share your sentiment though that after dealing with the UK immigration process, I wouldn't want to do it again somewhere else!

True. One good thing about the Scottish Referendum was that the"leavers" put a lot of time and effort into constructing a document/plan. You could go there and look at say primary education, and see what they at least were shooting for (there was of course an element of the unknown). The Brexiters just have some tired talking points.

The campaigns on both sides have been terrible. I have a feeling if "stay" wins...it will not feel like a victory, and if "leave" wins...it will be years of convoluted political crap.

True. One good thing about the Scottish Referendum was that the"leavers" put a lot of time and effort into constructing a document/plan.

In fairness though, I think it's a bit hard to compare to Scottish Ref. I think obviously it's the same concept but the EU ref. is on a MUCH larger scale with a lot more planning required. I think it's, to some degree, too much advanced planning. There's going to be so much unaccounted for as it will be a "make decision/reform as/when issue arises" because there's just too much that will need to be looked into if we leave. Obviously it could end with things better but it could end with chaos. It's such an unknown and I think both sides try to crunch numbers as best as they can and pretend their predictions are good as gold, but at the end of the day I just think there are too many unknowns to account for to really be able to say what will happen either way.

The campaigns on both sides have been terrible. I have a feeling if "stay" wins...it will not feel like a victory, and if "leave" wins...it will be years of convoluted political crap.

Oh absolutely! I unequivocally agree. It's almost like a lose-lose really. There will be complaints and finger pointing and "I told you so"'s regardless of what happens! Politics always seem to bring out the absolute worst in people and I have a feeling these oppositions aren't going to suddenly end once the referendum has been voted on and closed.

I guess the thing that gets me the most is the people who know what is the right thing to do......even though they don't. Maybe they actually have themselves convinced that they are right and infallible. I'm old enough now (58) to have seen quite a few "the sky is falling" claims. As far as the EU goes, I think the best someone can really say with intelligence is that they think one way or another is likely better and hopefully they have some good reasons for leaning that way......but to state that one way is the only answer, and the other way is Armageddon....is a bit scary.

I guess if I could vote I would vote out.....with the main reason being that when the Govt tells you that you really need to do something.....the underlying meaning is that it is better for them if you do it that way.....not necessarily better for me.

I think we can be pretty certain that if we leave the EU there will be no more free movement for Brits in Europe. There's no benefit to European countries to allow us to roam freely when we refuse to extend them the same courtesy. So sonofasailor's place in Italy and my little farmhouse in France would have to remain a fantasy.

So sonofasailor's place in Italy and my little farmhouse in France would have to remain a fantasy.

You can add my farm in the Italian Dolomites to the list.

The campaigns on both sides have been terrible. I have a feeling if "stay" wins...it will not feel like a victory, and if "leave" wins...it will be years of convoluted political crap.

This is my thinking.  I'll vote to stay in, simply because of the lack of an actual exit plan and the massive instability that would come as a result of Brexit. If Brexit campaigners could work out what leaving the EU would actually look like and discern the practicalities of what it means for NHS/Immigration/Economy/Security/Holidays/etc, then we can revisit this in a few years. 

As Americans, we enjoy similar level of global travel as our UK counterparts without being members of the EU, meaning people would likely still be able to enjoy holidays in the sun. But if they want to settle more permanently, they'd have to apply for visas (just like the rest of us non-EEAs), which would mean net migration is more controlled at a governmental level-- I don't necessarily see a problem with that.  It could even make it easier for non-EEA citizens in the end!