NHS fee to double

I'm ok with that, I don't seek their approval anyway.
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So why post?

So, that brings up the real question: what's your cutoff date for calling people criminal illegals? How far back does your personal time frame go, and what body of authority's standards are you basing that on? Just for example, the other half of my family might call anyone that came here from Europe and didn't check in with the local Native American governing body to be an illegal immigrant.

Anyone who came to this country illegally when they were old enough to know better, that's my criteria.

Local Naive American governing body lol. Good one.

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So why post?

Because it's a discussion board?

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Because it's a discussion board?

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You avoid the point.....like a politician......again.....why post?

Ya know, I spent decades traipsing around the American Southwest and Midwest. There are so very many little towns out there that are moribund or already ghost towns that used to be thriving, productive little communities with schools and main-streets, and churches, etc. It's a huge, 3/4th empty country.  You can drive for hours and not see an inhabited building. It's really sad, traveling the back roads and seeing what America used to be. And now all the buildings are crumbling and the occasional windmill is just a ruin.

So, if there are people here illegally who are making a serious go of trying to make a life, why not put them on a probation, and do what they did during the WPA for some of the starving in the cities?  Recruit them, give them some of that unused, unwanted land to farm or ranch (as a lease), or assign them out to a farmer/rancher as hired hands, and let them try to make a go of it? Spend the insane amount of money being funneled into "tracking and enforcement" elsewhere on something more productive. Bring back those little towns by having immigrants rehab the buildings as compensation for living in them. Provide the vitally necessary farm labor that the US is now critically short on. Give them a chance? It's not as if there's not room.

^^^ That's problem solvin' skillz right there  ;0)

The Latino immigrant community here is actually doing that. Most of our old downtown here in Concord NC was going derelict until they started opening up Mom & Pop businesses and fixing up the buildings. A couple of police officers I know have commented that they get fewer calls to the area since there's been more regular people traffic. I count both those as community benefits.

Anyone who came to this country illegally when they were old enough to know better, that's my criteria.

Local Naive American governing body lol. Good one.

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Oh bother, you're actually going to go with that one?
Do you want a chance to explain yourself, or would you prefer to just be dismissed as a Manifest Destiny-wanking, willfully ignorant colonial?

"After a brief hiatus that coincided with the worst of the economic recession, Texas’s illegal alien population is
on the rise again. There are about 1,810,000 illegal aliens residing in Texas — 70,000 more than resided in the state in 2010 when we estimated the fiscal burden at nearly $8.9 billion annually.

In 2013, illegal immigration cost Texas taxpayers about $12.1 billion annually. That amounts to more than $1,197 for every Texas household headed by a native-born or naturalized U.S. citizen. The taxes paid by illegal aliens — estimated at $1.27 billion per year — do not come close to paying for those outlays, but we include an estimate of revenue from sales taxes, property taxes, alcohol taxes, and cigarette taxes."

Sooooo illegals in the whole of the United States pay $13 billion in taxes, while costing nearly that much in Texas alone. Sounds like a net negative to me.

Not to mention this...

Per the FBI, there were 67,642 murders in the U.S. from 2005 through 2008, and 115,717 from 2003 through 2009. Per the GAO, criminal aliens committed 25,064 of them. That means they committed 22 to 37 percent of all murders in the U.S., while being only 3.52 to 8.25 percent of the population.”

Disgusting.

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I was simply answering your very specific question

Worked and paid taxes eh? How does someone in a country illegally pay taxes, exactly? In the US you need a social security number or tax identification number to file income taxes and have payroll taxes withheld from paychecks. How does an illegal alien go about that?

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My answer also was to point out that the US government is complicit in allowing them to work and pay taxes. Historically, as long as they work and pay taxes and keep out of trouble the government has left them alone. If tax preparers like myself can spot a fake TIN I’m darn sure the IRS can.

Oh bother, you're actually going to go with that one?
Do you want a chance to explain yourself, or would you prefer to just be dismissed as a Manifest Destiny-wanking, willfully ignorant colonial?

Explain myself? To you?

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Explain myself? To you?

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By your own words...."Because it's a discussion board".

By your own words...."Because it's a discussion board".

The discussion ends when someone resorts to name calling.

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The discussion ends when someone resorts to name calling.

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Huh? Boy, I don't get this comment at all......and you are still "discussing".

The discussion ends when someone resorts to name calling.

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Or stops with poor behavior such as calling people disgusting, making false accusations, and putting forth inaccurate information as a rationale for both?

I gave you the option of explaining whether you actually meant to sound like a toad stool with the crack about Native American local authority, or if you wanted to just be consistent with your previous professed attitude. You seem to have chosen to be taken for the toad stool; that's more like claiming the label than having it applied by someone else. Given your earlier comments, I figured you'd take pride in one of us nasty types awarding it to you.

You simply can't please some people.

Moderator stepping in

Let's get back on topic, folks. This thread is about the NHS fee doubling. While this tangent is (very) loosely related, it should stop here.

If you want to carry on the conversation, please take it over to the Pettifog branch. If it does continue there, please play nice. If you can't play nice, don't play at all.

Any posts deemed off-topic will be deleted - no warning, no editing, just *poof* disappeared.

As always, if anyone spots a post that doesn't adhere to the forum rules or seems inappropriate or off-topic, please report it and I or another mod will take care of it.

We are in the UK, not the US.  So it's not completely fair to compare the two systems. 

The IHS came in as other countries are not as fair to Brits in their country for healthcare, as the UK is to their citizens in the UK. The UK even looked at existing reciprocal health agreements with other countries and ended some of those as they were not very reciprocal.

Do you remember how Australians and Kiwis got one years grace while the UK was in talks with these countries? Then they too had to pay?


Youth Mobility visas
Brits going to Oz on a temporary visa have to pay for and pass a medical for a visa. They also need private health insurance as what Oz will give these Brits who pay taxes in their country, is very limited. These Brits also have to pay more in taxes.
Aussies to the UK on this visa - no medical required. Full bill free access to the NHS, even for their existing conditions. They pay the same taxes as Brits.
Even on the IHS, they are still better off than Brits working in Oz.

Some of the work visas.
Brits to Oz, they pay for their medical and if anyone in the family is likely to end up being a burden to the Aussie healthcare, the visa is refused. If the visas are granted, they are only given very basic health cover by Australia and need private insurance for the whole family. Some states require them to pay for each child they sent to state school.
Aussies to the UK on a work visa. No medical required and the whole family has full bill free access to the UK, even for existing conditions. They are not billed for sending their children to UK state schools. They don't pay higher rate taxes than a Brit. Even on the IHS, they are still better off than Brits working in Oz.




Brits in the US: medical needs to be paid for and no bill free healthcare provided by the US, even if they are paying taxes to the US.
US citizens in the UK. No medical required for a visa. Bill free use of the NHS even for existing conditions. Even on the IHS, you are FAR better off than what the US give Brits in your county.

It carries on like that for all those who come to the UK, while none or very little bill free healthcare for Brits in their country.

It was this imbalance that was why the UK said they were no longer going to be as generous with our NHS, but would still be more generous than most other countries. It's still a very unfair system for Brits and more needs to be done to make the system equal with every country.