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Topic: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course  (Read 2549 times)

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Re: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course
« Reply #30 on: January 25, 2019, 11:21:59 PM »
On the EU-spouse tack -  As someone above said, it's taking only a few weeks to get a EU family permit. (I'm pretty sure ours took longer, but I was counting mailing time at both ends in that, and it was in 2016 around the holidays, and I've slept since then, so....). Once you have that you can enter and exit the UK several times, within the validity period of the permit. Assuming the UK is still in the EU during that time. SO if you have to run back to the States for something, you could do that.

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit

If there's a Hard Brexit, the UK is still saying that they are going to honor EU citizens' residency here. So if you're over here by then, you should be ok.

If there's a soft Brexit (or no Brexit), you should be ok over here. With the usual caveats.

If you come in as an EU spouse, you don't need the Tier 4. You will show them your EU residency card and have the right to work and live in the UK on the same terms as a national. You'll still be popped for international tuition and fees, most likely, until you've been here three years, but you would be free to attend. I remember seeing something in the past few days about as long as your sponsor had been in the EU for three years, you could get EU fees even if you had not been here that long yourself. But that might have been a special circumstance situation. Worth checking.

As Sirius points out, though, EU citizen status is somewhat shaky here. The UK can change the law or their policies towards EU citizens at any time once the UK is no longer in the EU. Turn around and turn us all out. Unlikely, but they can do it. Or make our lives so miserable we don't want to stay.

Right now, what they are saying is that for Hard Brexit, if you're here before we crash out, you can stay. You'll have to file for pre-settled status and then after 5 years file again for "settled" status. (Like a US greencard.)  After that point you can apply for citizenship (maybe another year's wait, not sure). If you don't make it over on the family permit before Brexit's cliff, you have to use UK immigration rules, not EU movement rules. MUCH harder.

If we DON'T crash out, and there's an implementation period involved, as long as you get here before the implementation period ends, you can apply for pre-settled status, and then after 5 years for "settled" status. You can then live here indefinitely unless you do something criminal or become a threat to the country. And, of course, they can change that at any time. So until you are a citizen, your rights are less solid.

If they delay Brexit by some major wheeling and dealing (which I don't see the EU agreeing to unless there's some significant chance the UK govmt can get their collective heads out of their collective backsides to actually propose something even reasonably acceptable, or to give them time to hold another referendum), you can still skittle in on EU rules. (So far.)

https://www.gov.uk/settled-status-eu-citizens-families/applying-for-settled-status

Supposing you do the EU family permit. As soon as you get over here,  you would normally want to file for an EU family member residence card. (Technically you have three months, but I wouldn't wait.) With Brexit looming, I'm assuming they will still issue them. (But Who Knows?) Otherwise, register for pre-settlement ASAP. Supposedly the system to do that will be "live" by the current Brexit date. Once you have pre-settled status, you should be able to have proof to show your Uni that you are legal to be there and studying.

Good luck!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 10:01:52 AM by Nan D. »


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Re: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2019, 07:39:42 AM »
As KFdancer said, there is nothing for a non-EEA citizen fiance on EU rules.

PR ends on Brexit as PR is EU rules.

Nobody knows what is going to happen as a clean Brexit means no Withdrawal Bill.

I was replying to KFdancer about how those on PR can use UK immigration rules and used a non-EEA citizen with PR as an example: they can only use UK immigration rules to bring a partner and children.

So, you agree with what larrabee and I said, then?

That as the OP's partner has PR (and providing she applies for settled status within the deadline after Brexit), she can use UK immigration rules to sponsor a visa... and therefore has a choice of whether to use UK or EEA immigration rules.

From the UKVI family visa webpages:

Quote
Apply as a partner or spouse
To apply as a partner, you and your partner both need to be 18 or over.

Your partner must also either:

- be a British citizen
- have settled in the UK (they have ‘indefinite leave to remain’ or proof of permanent residence)
- have refugee status or humanitarian protection in the UK

You and your partner must intend to live together permanently in the UK after you apply.
https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse


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Re: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2019, 01:26:57 PM »
So, you agree with what larrabee and I said, then?

That as the OP's partner has PR (and providing she applies for settled status within the deadline after Brexit), she can use UK immigration rules to sponsor a visa... and therefore has a choice of whether to use UK or EEA immigration rules.

From the UKVI family visa webpages:
https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/partner-spouse

I think you are both correct and your quote seems to confirm that.

The proof of PR; in your quote; will be a DCPR (Document Confirming Permanent Residence) for an EEA citizen, which is what they must have to apply for British citizenship anyway, and prove it is still valid (just like ILR, they lose PR  if they are outside the UK for more than 2 years). Just like ILR, they need to hold PR for one year, unless they are married to a British citizen.

 From what I have seen from pictures online, this is like an RC but has Document Confirming Permanent Residence written in it instead. Non-EEA citizens with PR, are only issued a plastic card.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-for-a-permanent-residence-document-or-permanent-residence-card-form-eea-pr

One other thing, if the OPs fiance become a British citizen when he ( a non-EEA citizen) is using them as their sponsor under EU rules, I am not sure if he will still have a sponsor?  On the back of the McCarthy Ruling that the UK won against an Irish citizen, in the European Court of Justice, once they are a British citizen then they are not an EEA citizen in the UK. I assume the OPs fiance want to be a BC asap to secure her stay in the UK? However there was a case in the ECJ from a illegal immigrant in the UK who married a Spanish citizen who had become a British citizen, which they won recently (it takes many years in the European Court of Justice)  but I'm not sure what the rules are under that case? It was something like the Lournes (sp) case.

But as we saw, there was a challange in the Eurpean Court of Justice from non-EEA citizens using the Singh Ruling, called the Eind Ruling, which they won. That said their citizen of that country sponsor, did not them have to work when they moved there on Singh. But the UK have now ignored that Eind ruling under their recent EEA Regs on Singh, and these are refused the EU's PR if  their Brit is not an EU qualified person continuously, and in some cases, that mean the non-EEA citizen must have bought a Comprehensive Sickness Insurance. Some reporting they receive a notice to leave the UK or be deported. Many have already decided to use UK immigrtion rules instead after all, as they know they will be refused PR. What is the EU going to do about the UK refusing to accept the Eind Ruling anymore? Throw the UK out?
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 01:48:47 PM by Sirius »


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Re: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2019, 01:49:29 PM »
The OP's partner is an EU citizen, not non-EU.  :)

But he is an non-EEA citizen.


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Re: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2019, 02:21:23 PM »
But he is an non-EEA citizen.

And? What does that have to do with anything?

- He is a US citizen
- She is a settled person in the UK.

Therefore she is eligible to sponsor him for a settlement visa as the spouse of a person present and settled in the UK, under UK rules.

The UK Immigration Rules explicitly state that an EEA citizen with permanent residence in the UK is considered 'present and settled' in the UK and can sponsor a UK rules settlement visa, as long as they have proof of their PR.

Quote
“present and settled” or “present and settled in the UK” means that the person concerned is settled in the United Kingdom and, at the time that an application under these Rules is made, is physically present here or is coming here with or to join the applicant and intends to make the UK their home with the applicant if the application is successful.

Where the person concerned is a British Citizen or settled in the UK and is:

(i) a member of HM Forces serving overseas,
or
(ii) a permanent member of HM Diplomatic Service, or a comparable UK-based staff member of the British Council, the Department for International Development or the Home Office on a tour of duty outside the UK, and the applicant has provided the evidence specified in paragraph 26A of Appendix FM-SE, then for the purposes of Appendix FM the person is to be regarded as present and settled in the UK, and in paragraphs R-LTRP.1.1.(a) and R-ILRP.1.1.(a) of Appendix FM the words “and their partner must be in the UK” are to be disregarded.

For the purposes of an application under Appendix FM, or as a fiancé(e), proposed civil partner, spouse, civil partner, unmarried partner, same sex partner, child, parent or adult dependent relative under Part 8, an EEA national with a permanent right to reside in the UK under European law must hold either a valid residence permit issued under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2000 which has been endorsed under the Immigration Rules to show permission to remain in the UK indefinitely, or a valid document certifying permanent residence issued under the Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006, in order to be regarded as present and settled in the UK.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-introduction#intro6


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Re: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2019, 03:37:46 PM »
And? What does that have to do with anything?

I was replying to larrabees quote and it is was relevant. 

Just seen she has removed that post, so I assume she realised her error after she posted and we then cross posted?? If you click on that link to larrabee's post, it doesn't lead to a post now.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2019, 03:44:08 PM by Sirius »


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Re: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2019, 03:44:06 PM »
I was replying to larrabees quote and it is was relevant. 

Just seen she has removed her post, so I assume she realised that after she posted and we cross posted??

I removed my post because I decided that I had misread your earlier one.  :)

The facts are - the OP is non-EU, the OP's partner is EU with PR.

I thought you had said that the OP's partner was non-EU so corrected you on that, but when I re-read it, I came to the conclusion that you had meant the OP was non-EU which is correct, so I removed my post!

Sorry for any confusion.  :)


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Re: Advice on navigating between Fiance Visa and applying to a Master's course
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2019, 03:44:47 PM »
I removed my post because I decided that I had misread your earlier one.  :)

The facts are - the OP is non-EU, the OP's partner is EU with PR.

I thought you had said that the OP's partner was non-EU so corrected you on that, but when I re-read it, I came to the conclusion that you had meant the OP was non-EU which is correct, so I removed my post!

Sorry for any confusion.  :)


:)


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