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Topic: ordinary residence for PhD student  (Read 1451 times)

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ordinary residence for PhD student
« on: January 29, 2020, 02:56:19 PM »
Hello everyone, this is my first question hopefully I don't mess up.

I have been studying in  UK for last three and half years and I am finishing my Masters this year in June and want to apply for PhD.
My parents in the meanwhile have also decided to move UK and we have made UK our permanent home since Jan 2018. We have bought a house and this is our permanent residence. My parents have come on Investor Visa and still have three years before they get their ILR.
Now since I am US citizen, I am constantly told that I have to pay overseas fees because I require tier 4 visa to study. 
I look at the link newcomer link: https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status#ordinary-residence [nonactive]
and it does not seems to mention anything about requiring visa for residence status. The fees for overseas student in my university is 3 times the fees for UK/EU residents and I do want desperately to qualify for local fees because most of funding only covers local option and not global fees.
Please tell me if I should qualify as local residence?


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Re: ordinary residence for PhD student
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2020, 03:05:22 PM »
Hello everyone, this is my first question hopefully I don't mess up.

I have been studying in  UK for last three and half years and I am finishing my Masters this year in June and want to apply for PhD.
My parents in the meanwhile have also decided to move UK and we have made UK our permanent home since Jan 2018. We have bought a house and this is our permanent residence. My parents have come on Investor Visa and still have three years before they get their ILR.
Now since I am US citizen, I am constantly told that I have to pay overseas fees because I require tier 4 visa to study. 
I look at the link https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information--Advice/Fees-and-Money/England-fee-status#ordinary-residence
and it does not seems to mention anything about requiring visa for residence status. The fees for overseas student in my university is 3 times the fees for UK/EU residents and I do want desperately to qualify for local fees because most of funding only covers local option and not global fees.
Please tell me if I should qualify as local residence?

Welcome to the forum.  :)

I believe that, as well as 3 years residency, you would also have to be a British Citizen or hold ILR in order to qualify for home fees.


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Re: ordinary residence for PhD student
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2020, 03:14:19 PM »
Welcome :)

Welcome to the forum.  :)

I believe that, as well as 3 years residency, you would also have to be a British Citizen or hold ILR in order to qualify for home fees.

Yes, the requirement to qualify for home fees is:
- you must have lived in the UK (or EEA) for 3 years prior to the start of the course
AND
- you must hold ILR or UK citizenship


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ordinary residence for PhD student
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2020, 03:22:25 PM »
The UKCISA website says:

9. Non-EEA citizens with three years' ordinary residence in the UK
You will be eligible under this category if you:
are a non-EEA citizen; and
have permission granted by the UK Government to live in the UK and not for educational purposes; and
have been ordinarily resident in the UK for at least the three years immediately before your course starts.


Also:

Where a category includes a condition that the main purpose of your residence must not have been to receive full-time education, a useful question to ask is: "if you had not been in full-time education, where would you have been ordinarily resident?". If the answer to this question is "outside the relevant residence area" this would indicate that the main purpose for your residence was full-time education. If the answer is that you would have been resident in the relevant residence area even if you had not been in full-time education, this would indicate that full-time education was not the main purpose for your residence in the relevant area.

So that means that because you have a Tier 4 visa (which is a visa for educational purposes), even though you have been here for 3 years, you do not qualify for home fees under this category... because your visa is specifically for studying, so if you were not studying in the UK, you would not have been allowed to live here, and would have been living in your home country.




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Re: ordinary residence for PhD student
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2020, 03:48:05 PM »
Thank you too all for your replies even though that is not how I wanted to hear but at least I have clarity.


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Re: ordinary residence for PhD student
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2020, 04:42:01 PM »
Just a thought here -

Not sure where in the UK you are (I assume England), or the program you are considering, or which University, and all that will color the following. We were navigating a somewhat similar hurdle with my daughter. She finished her master's here, and then was planning to go on for a PhD. We finally found a loophole to get "home" fees (as the dependent of an EU citizen who had moved here several months prior to her starting her program - thus meeting the "where would you have been if you had not been in full-time ed here" criteria). But, after doing quite a bit of research, she found out that a PhD in her field from the Uni she was planning to attend is not considered to be equivalent to a USA PhD. The one here is basically research on her topic, and then writing up a dissertation. No additional classes, no teaching experience.  She'd come out with a PhD that would be incredibly narrow and no other preparation for a career in academia (which is what she wants).

She'd be quite an expert, but only in that very small area. It would definitely not serve as an appropriate qualification to work in academia in the USA. (Where one attends from three to six years at the PhD level, undertakes teaching, and takes several of those years as coursework, as a rule. The Unis hiring there expect a much broader preparation. And, to my knowledge, none will hire someone to teach who hasn't been trained to teach and actually taught classes.) I am not sure how well a UK PhD would fare in the EU, as far as the requisite career preparation goes; however, with the UK now leaving the EU, and with her not being an EU citizen, it wasn't looking promising. (Had she been an EU citizen I suspect it wouldn't have been as bleak.)   She is now hoping to get into a PhD program in the USA. She is comfortable that a PhD from a good school there would serve her anywhere. Unlike here in Scotland, most of the better PhD programs in the States make it financially possible for their admitted students to attend, so that's also in favor of going back to the States for it.

As noted, I don't know your field, or the program you were hoping to attend, or your future plans. But you might want to look carefully at all that. If you intend to work outside the UK (in the EU for instance) you won't be on the same level playing field with other applicants. The EU applicants will have a leg-up on you if you only have a UK degree and are not an EU citizen. The problems my daughter found with working in the USA might also apply to you, if you want to eventually work there.

She did carefully consider if her degree would make her marketable here inside the UK, but with research funding from the EU drying up, and there being very few suitable positions in the first place in her field, she decided it was an unreasonable course of action for her to pursue - she'd potentially end up working in a shop, with that PhD, or otherwise unemployed.

Something to consider. It's a lot of money to invest, and time as well.  8)

(If one of your parents had Irish parents you could apply for Irish citizenship by descent and get the magic EU citizen card, which might be of great use to you later on.)
« Last Edit: January 30, 2020, 11:40:23 AM by Nan D. »


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