Bizarre Citizenship convo with hairdresser

Went for a haircut so I'll look good (lol well at least nice) for my ILR BIOS appt next week.  The guy cutting my hair tells me he's Scottish by birth, born & raised (as I am also married to a Scot, I can honestly say you'll never hear any Scot say they're British) but he'd gone & lived in Florida for 30 yrs then moved back a few yrs ago.  He tells me his wife is half Native American & half British & that her mother is British.
I said "Lucky her not having to jump through all the hoops to live here now you've come back."
He replies, "What do you mean?"
Me:  "She's half British.  She's automatically British no matter what country she was born in."
Him:  "What? No she had to do the whole visa thing & Life Test & everything."
Me: "What?? No way!  I swear to you she's been British from birth.  If she was born in the UK she's British.  If she was born in the US she has dual citizenship.  Unless she renounced it or her mum gave up hers before her kid was born, she's British."
Him:  "Do you know how much money we spent for all of it & to get her citizenship?"
Me: (laughing) "Umm?? Hello I'm on my final leg for ILR so yeah I know how much it costs."
Him:  "Why would the HO make us pay for something she already had?"
Me:  "I dunno.  Cuz it's the Government & they need the dosh?"

Don't know all the ins & outs but sounds right unfair to me for her to have had to go through it all.

From what I know about how citizenship is passed down, my guess with this woman is that her mom may have been born overseas and she too was born outside of the UK. That's my only guess, but still, seems like there should be a visa for people with at least one British parent.

I have a friend who is a UKC, but was born overseas. Her dad was born in the UK and has a British passport. Her mom also has a British passport, but gained it throug her parents (her mom was also born overseas). My friend's husband also has British passport, as he was born in a country that (at the time) allowed you to register your baby as either of that country (a former Commonwealth) or British (both of his parents had been born in that country). Years later when my friend and her husband had their children they thought it would be a good idea to take them to the High Commission and have them registered a UKCs since both of them were. The High Commission turned down their application due to both her and husband being born outside of the UK. Her husband (and their lawyer) argued that he had been born on what was then considered "British soil" and therefore his children should be entitled to citizenship through him. The High Commission still said no, but said the kids could get a visa for the UK when they were ready to move. The family now live in the UK and the kids will get British citizenship next year. I'm told it was a very expensive process.

Either way, seems a bit ridiculous.

Yes I've read about that type of situation.  Any child born anywhere outside the UK to someone who was born in the UK proper is automatically a UK citizen.  BUT any children born to that child (essentially the "grandchild" of the UK proper born) are NOT automatically citizens & have to go through the process.

But they're supposed to have an easier time of it & supposedly spend less money because they can use the "Grandparent" was born in the UK route.

It’s not necessarily that straight forward, I suspect they looked into it before going the visa route.

But there were a LOT of rules about the parents having to be married for the mother to be able to pass on citizenship.  If the child was born out of wedlock, it wouldn’t pass on, etc. 

But they're supposed to have an easier time of it & supposedly spend less money because they can use the "Grandparent" was born in the UK route.

Yeah, so that's likely the "ancestral" route. I know three people who are on ancestral visas. They're from New Zealand, Kenya and Zimbabwe, and all three of them have at least one UK-born grandparent. My understanding is that that visa route is not available to all nationalities, and US citizens are one of the many not included.

In case you wanted to have a browse: https://www.gov.uk/ancestry-visa

As a country gains independance from Britain, those people then hold citizenship of their own new independant country instead.There was an article written somewhere about, if you want your decendants to be British citizens, be careful which country you get your British citizenship through.

There are six different types of British Nationality. Some of these are subject to immigration control with no automatic right to live or work in the UK.
 These are:

    British citizenship
    British overseas territories citizen
    British overseas citizen
    British subject
    British national (overseas)
    British protected person

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality

Yeah, so that's likely the "ancestral" route. I know three people who are on ancestral visas. They're from New Zealand, Kenya and Zimbabwe, and all three of them have at least one UK-born grandparent. My understanding is that that visa route is not available to all nationalities, and US citizens are one of the many not included.

In case you wanted to have a browse: https://www.gov.uk/ancestry-visa

One of the requirements for that visa is that you have to be a citizen of one of the 54 Commonwealth countries.
https://thecommonwealth.org/member-countries

The point of providing information about the parents of the visa applicant is so that they can tell if there is any likelihood of them being a citizen already, as KFD intimated.

Citizenship law is much, much more complicated than the usual visa stuff we all have to deal with.

A british can either be citizen by descent or otherwise (birth, naturalisation). I was born outside the UK (not a colony) to unmarried parents but my father was born british, so I may have a claim to citizenship through him, but the process is not straightforward compared to having married parents.

I am currently trying my luck on claiming citizenship by descent and have created a thread to document it. Hope you can head on over there too (link below). I really need some help trying to figure out the support documents i need for this. Thanks in advance!

https://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=99579.0

Thought you all might find this interesting, since it's somewhat relevant to this thread.

I was just chatting to my friend today who said our mutal now has UK citizenship. I thought, "But wait, he came on an ancestral visa and has only been here for like two years? How can that be?" He didn't have ILR, just the ancestry visa.

Turns out, he was entitled to UK citizenship all along. He applied for the ancestral visa since he thought he qualified, was approved, moved here, and then one day decided to look at citizenship requirements. Turns out, he qualified all along and should have never come over on an ancestral visa.

Not that his is news to anyone, but the Home Office just don't seem to know their own rules.

Thought some of you may find this interesting.

I have some experience with the topic.  I have a British mother and was born prior to 1983.  According to the law I am not automatically British.  I had to register as British and have a citizenship ceremony and pay 80 pounds.  If I had a British father I would automatically be British at birth, no action required, just apply for the passport.  Old laws were based on patriarchy.  They corrected this so post 1983 births are now automatically British, from both the father and mother.  Descent citizenship only passes down one generation.  Some rare cases allow for double descent (based on grandparents).

I have some experience with the topic.  I have a British mother and was born prior to 1983.  According to the law I am not automatically British.  I had to register as British and have a citizenship ceremony and pay 80 pounds.  If I had a British father I would automatically be British at birth, no action required, just apply for the passport. 

Old laws were based on patriarchy.

Not quite.

Between 1949 and 1983, a British by descent father who had a child born abroad, could register his child's birth at the British Consulate within 1 year if they chose to do so. Under a section of the Nationalty Act 1948 that entitled that child to British citizenship (double descent). However that was not the case for British by descent mothers and their children born abroad as they did not have that choice because they could not pass on their citizenship.

British natiaonality laws discriminated against women until 1983.

They corrected this so post 1983 births are now automatically British, from both the father and mother. 

No.

The judge ruled the past could not be undone. Those born abroad to a British by descent mother between 1949 and 1983, can apply for British citizenship but it's not automatic, it's at the discretion of the Home Secretary. These have to register (albeit a very low fee) and pass the Good Character requriement to be granted British citizenship.

Post 1983, there are different rules for those born abroad to a British by descent parent and most of these children cannot have British citizenship.

You are describing the Romein* court case situation.  I mentioned in my post that in certain cases double descent is possible.  Normally descent citizenship only passes down one generation.  The Romein case allows a descent Father to pass it on to his child, thus double descent.

Births to British fathers (who are NOT descent citizens themselves) are British by operation of law.  No action is required the child just needs to apply for a passport.  British mothers could not pass on citizenship at all until they changed the law.

The Good Character requirement has been removed due to a court case** ruling for form UKM applications (pre 1983 births to British mothers).

I stated that GOING FORWARD births to non descent British Fathers and Mothers are automatically citizens.  Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.  You need to apply to register for citizenship if born before the law changed and you have a British mother.  Children of other than by descent British Fathers never needed to register for citizenship as it has always been by operation of law.

* https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/uksc-2016-0165.html
** https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/good-character-removed-for-some-citizenship-applications-to-remedy-discrimination/