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Topic: EU Settlement for Nephew  (Read 2617 times)

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Re: EU Settlement for Nephew
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2022, 11:45:20 AM »
Wanna bet?

My partner is an Irish citizen from the Republic exercising his existing EU rights to live in the UK and has done since 2000.

But you are not an EEA citizen and you said you are the one who applied to sponsor your nephew under the EUSS. The EU doesn't allow a non-EEA/CH citizen to sponsor somebody  under their Free Movement and the UK does not allow that either under the UK EUSS

I previously held two separate 5-year EU residence cards before securing my 10-year ILR EUSS card.

There is no "10-year ILR EUSS card".

The EU Residence Cards were the EU allowing you to live in the UK and they became invalid when the UK stopped the EU's Free Movement of Persons to the UK. The EU also granted PR (Permanent Residence) in the UK too and that status also became invalid in the UK.

The UK created the EUSS (EU Settlement Scheme) for those who lived in the UK under EU rules and who wanted to remain in the UK, or who wanted to get to the UK before the UK closed that immigration door. Those who applied to the EUSS could be granted either:-
Pre-Settled Status (a type of Limited Leave to Remain) for those with less than 5 years residence
OR
Settled Status (a type of Indefinite Leave to remain) which was for for those who had 5 years residence in the UK.


Pretty sure that a "sponsoring person" as explained in the rules can be the spouse or civil partner of any nationality as long as they're the spouse or civil partner of an EU citizen.

Trust me, this is not an argument you will win with me and you'll just end up making a fool out of yourself  ;D

As I have already stated and given you the link to, UKCEN were funded to help the millions of EEA citizens and non-EEA citizen, understand the UK’s EUSS to be able to stay in/get to, the UK. They met with the Home Office and had solicitors on that forum.

From two of the links I had already given you-

“...cannot sponsor him via the EUSS because they are not EEA nationals. Even if they acquired EU citizenship, only EEA nationals who got EUSS status in their own right, that is, on the basis of their residence here before the end of last year, can sponsor other family members via the EUSS, those who got their status as family members cannot sponsor via this route, even if they are EEA nationals.”

And

“Unfortunately only EEA nationals who got their status in their own right as resident here before the end of 2020 can sponsor close family members via the EUSS, this isn't very well publicised. People who got their status as joining family members, regardless of nationality, cannot sponsor other family members via this route. “

And

“I'm very sorry to hear this, unfortunately it's not a well publicised fact, that only EEA nationals who obtained status in their own right by living here before the end of 2020, are able to sponsor close family members under the EUSS. Anyone whose status was obtained as a joining family member, whether they are EEA nationals or not, is not able to sponsor via this route.”


And

“Unfortunately only EEA nationals who obtained EUSS status based on their own residence here before the end of 2020 can sponsor via the EUSS, people who got status as joining family members, regardless of whether they have EEA nationality or not, cannot sponsor via this route. This is not well publicised by the government, if it was me, I'd have made it very clear on the forms and on the official pages, they have not made it clear at all.”

https://www.forum.ukcen.com/forum/application-support/other-routes/82981-can-i-sponsor-my-brother

https://www.forum.ukcen.com/forum/application-support/other-routes/86054-euss-refusal



If you want to sponsor, the EU Settled Status (ILR) you were granted does allow you to sponsor, but … only an EEA/CH citizen can use the EUSS to sponsor.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 12:01:40 PM by Sirius »


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Re: EU Settlement for Nephew
« Reply #31 on: October 08, 2022, 11:52:19 AM »
But you are not an EEA citizen and you said you are the one who applied to sponsor your nephew under the EUSS. The EU doesn't allow a non-EEA/CH citizen to sponsor somebody  under their Free Movement and the UK does not allow that either under the UK EUSS

There is no "10-year ILR EUSS card".

The EU Residence Cards were the EU allowing you to live in the UK and they became invalid when the UK stopped the EU's Free Movement of Persons to the UK. The EU also granted PR (Permanent Residence) in the UK too and that status also became invalid in the UK.

The UK created the EUSS (EU Settlement Scheme) for those who lived in the UK under EU rules and who wanted to remain in the UK, or who wanted to get to the UK before the UK closed that immigration door. Those who applied to the EUSS could be granted either Pre-Settled Status (a type of Limited Leave to Remain): or Settled Status (a type of Indefinite Leave to remain) for those who had 5 years residence in the UK.



As I have already stated and given you the link to, UKCEN were funded to help the millions of EEA citizens and non-EEA citizen, understand the UK’s EUSS. They met with the Home Office and had solicitors on that forum.

From two of the links I had already given you-

“...cannot sponsor him via the EUSS because they are not EEA nationals. Even if they acquired EU citizenship, only EEA nationals who got EUSS status in their own right, that is, on the basis of their residence here before the end of last year, can sponsor other family members via the EUSS, those who got their status as family members cannot sponsor via this route, even if they are EEA nationals.”

And

“Unfortunately only EEA nationals who got their status in their own right as resident here before the end of 2020 can sponsor close family members via the EUSS, this isn't very well publicised. People who got their status as joining family members, regardless of nationality, cannot sponsor other family members via this route. “

And

“I'm very sorry to hear this, unfortunately it's not a well publicised fact, that only EEA nationals who obtained status in their own right by living here before the end of 2020, are able to sponsor close family members under the EUSS. Anyone whose status was obtained as a joining family member, whether they are EEA nationals or not, is not able to sponsor via this route.”


And

“Unfortunately only EEA nationals who obtained EUSS status based on their own residence here before the end of 2020 can sponsor via the EUSS, people who got status as joining family members, regardless of whether they have EEA nationality or not, cannot sponsor via this route. This is not well publicised by the government, if it was me, I'd have made it very clear on the forms and on the official pages, they have not made it clear at all.”

https://www.forum.ukcen.com/forum/application-support/other-routes/82981-can-i-sponsor-my-brother

https://www.forum.ukcen.com/forum/application-support/other-routes/86054-euss-refusal



If you want to sponsor, the EU Settled Status (ILR) you were granted does allow you to sponsor, but … only an EEA/CH citizen can use the EUSS to sponsor.


Wow, where to start...

First off, the card in my pocket states:
Type of Permit: EUSS
Date of issue - June 2020
Valid until June 2030 (Pretty sure that's 10-years...)
Remarks: work permitted, INDEFINITE LEAVE TO REMAIN

I don't know where you're getting your ideas, but they're way off.

Also you didn't even address the Appendix EU rules that I directly quoted. Now, you may not want to THINK that the spouse/civil partner of an EU citizen can sponsor a family member, but that doesn't make it true simply because of your wilful ignorance.

None of your replies have been based in fact, the Appendix EU rules, or reality, so you may want to stay silent instead of proving you're actually not as smart as you'd like to think.


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Re: EU Settlement for Nephew
« Reply #32 on: October 08, 2022, 12:24:18 PM »
The EUSettled Status that the UK created on a deal under the Withdrawal Agreement and ILR (for those who used the UK immigration rules to get ILR) grants the same, except those on the EUSettled-Status are allowed to live 5 years outside the UK, while those on ILR are allowed 2 years outside the UK, to keep their status. 

You can see that the EU were only bothered about thier own citizens and not the non-EU citizens using EU regs or rulings. The EEA countries made their own deals with the UK and they too were only bothered about their own citizens. The Swiss (non EEA but have to allow the EU's Free Movement) seem to have the best deal for Swiss/British citizens.

As said, a non-EEA citizen who has been granted the EUSS Settled Status can sponsor (just as somebody who got ILR under UK immigration rules can) but not under the EUSS as they are not an EEA citizen. They all sponsor under the other immigration rules.

If you don't want to believe those who were paid to help people undesrtand how to use the EUSS or the EU/UK forums, then that is your choice.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2022, 12:54:31 PM by Sirius »


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Re: EU Settlement for Nephew
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2023, 11:53:11 AM »
Hi everyone, it's been a while and unfortunately I don't have good news (yet!) on our situation. Here's an update:

We got the decision from the Administrative Review team nearly a year after we lodged it, on 28 March 2023. They finally decided that the sole issue was that they did not recognise the US court order as it was not listed in the court orders in Appendix EU to the Immigration Rules.

This was the very first instance where they indicated this was the problem. They did not address our assertion that my nephew qualified as a "child' under the definition in the rules. They have conflated the issue of the nephew/uncle relationship with what we are actually applying for: as the guardians of the child.

So I have lodged a formal appeal with the Tribunal. In that I have asserted that there are a number of issues with which we take exception, the most important one being a neglect of procedural fairness.

I have asserted that at no point whatsoever did they make clear to us that we were required to have a guardianship order from within the UK. There was not and still is not any information on the application page for children who are subject to a guardianship order or who have been subject to a surrogacy arrangement (though these are specifically outlined in the Appendix EU Rules). My argument is that if it were a specific requirement, they would have to indicate this at the outset and that the first time this was expressed to us was 15 months after the initial application, in the Administrative Review decision.

I have also asserted that according to Evidential Flexibility that they were not able to request a specific document if we weren't notified that it would be necessary for our application. Nor did the Administrative Review flag this.

I have received all my nephew's case notes via a Subject Access Request and it is clear that they did not follow the correct timeline for requesting additional evidence (they were supposed to give us 14 days, however the decision was made only 2 days after they spoke with me on the phone). Further, the caseworker only spoke with a SCW that evening and subsequently made the decision without circling back to us about the evidence in question.

I submitted this all to the Tribunal and the Home Office were supposed to respond by 18 May, this past week, however they have asked for an extension until 30 May. I have no doubt that if they were confident in their decision they would have been prepared to respond quickly.

So I am still waiting and have, up to now, not needed any legal advice! It's amazing what sort of guidance is available, but that the Home Office don't seem to want to follow.

Reading for anyone who has plenty of time on their hands:
Evidential Flexibility: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/952663/evidential-flexibility-v11.0ext.pdf
Procedural Fairness decision AGAINSt the Home office: https://www.supremecourt.uk/cases/docs/uksc-2018-0194-judgment.pdf (in particular paragraph 6)

We're relying on procedural fairness given that we should have been given all the information to make a successful case and by neglecting to provide us with any guidance whatsoever, the Home Office knew that our application would fail from the start.

Finally we have also argued that there is no guarantee that we could secure a UK court order as the courts are inclined not to grant them if they will not benefit the child. And as we already have a legal guardianship order, they could potentially decline our request. It is this possibility that, we argue, means that we shouldn't be required to go through that costly process just for a "chance" at securing a UK order.


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Re: EU Settlement for Nephew
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2023, 01:42:53 PM »
Man, you are super smart. I’d argue you are far better than most lawyers.  I guess someone has to be first.  At least you can be trailblazers for the future. I know this would have received media attention WITHOUT this being a first.  You know you always have that in your back pocket.  I suspect within 72 hours of your story in a newspaper you would have guarantees from the Home Office securing your nephew’s future.

I hope your response also really hammers home that this tick box exercise is affecting a CHILD’S life and giving extended anxiety and uncertainty.  I know you’ve shielded your nephew from those thoughts, but those fears should have been silenced by now.

Keep it up. I think of you guys often and really want to hear the happy ending!


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Re: EU Settlement for Nephew
« Reply #35 on: May 30, 2023, 07:43:32 PM »
We got the very sparse response from the Home Office to the Tribunal today and they are maintaining that
Quote
Both the published guidance for EUSS applications and the Immigration Rules are available online. The R would not consider it unreasonable for the A to research the requirements of the rules prior to submitting an application.

What they are failing to realise is that an Upper Tribunal JUST ruled against them earlier this year because the Appendix EU Rules are "convoluted"

The Judge in the case stated:
Quote
"Given that the scheme was designed to regularise the status of millions of European citizens and their family members who were resident in the United Kingdom before it exited from the European Union, the provisions needed to be sufficiently clear for a lay person to apply for leave to enter or remain without the assistance of a legal representative. Instead, some parts are barely comprehensible even to experienced legal professionals, including the Secretary of State's own representatives, who through no fault of their own often seem unable to explain the meaning of the provisions to the Tribunal with any confidence."

This was passed down on 3 January 2023, only months before our Administrative Review was finalised. So you would think SOMEONE in the Home Office would be aware of this.

So despite their assertion that we could "research the requirements of the Rules prior to submitting an application" it's demonstrably false that the Rules are even accessible or able to be interpreted by lay people.

If anyone wants to read the full judgement it is here: https://tribunalsdecisions.service.gov.uk/utiac/ea-13870-2021


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Re: EU Settlement for Nephew
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2023, 08:48:51 AM »
Is it just my ignorance or is that response unprofessional and snotty?  Is it part of the hostile environment for the Home Office to act like this whole thing is an instagram flame war?


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