What are the pros and cons of living in USA

Hi all,

Us as a family have not long been back from visiting our American family (after a trip to Disneyland) and we always get asked whether we'd move over. Actually gave it some thought this year.

In my job I would earn literally double what I'm on now. In £'s. My wife could comfortably get a job. Living expenses seem to be very similar to here such as car insurance price, energy etc. But I'm the UKC so totally unaware of things I'd be missing. My wife (USC) worked in cities and hospitality so pretty alien to family residential life.

My worry regarding jobs is that it seems they can just let you go in an instant. Very opposite here. Education in the US from my impression seems to be to a higher standard. There also seems to be more to do in the States, too. Lots of fairs, classes, amateur sports etc etc. That's subjective I know.

What puts me off is obviously school shootings, abortion now being stricter (we have two daughters), guns in general, overall attitude towards global affairs (conspiracies QAnon etc), insulting amount of vacation days (can I have more and take a slight pay cut?), the employment insecurity of just being let go.

We'd have a comfier life me earning double with relatively the same outgoings. Are there any pros and cons I've missed? How do you compare it to life in the UK?

Healthcare. While my experience of the actual care was on the whole better than the UK, the health insurance companies are just wicked to deal with. Then there is the stress of having to keep a job to keep the insurance. And insurance is EXPENSIVE!

I'm not sure that the quality of education is higher across the board - it seems to vary a lot more in the US because of how it is funded (based on property taxes in most places, so weather areas have much better schools and poor or rural areas don't) and the amount of local control that means a school board can just decide to teach creationism as "science" or something ridiculous.

For education, I think most people are pretty aligned that primary education is stronger in the UK v USA.  Whereas secondary is stronger in the USA v UK.  So they do a flip as kids get a bit older.  The USA education system is also MUCH more forgiving.  More of a "balanced" grading system and not solely exam based.  MANY MANY pathways to university if someone isn't ready for university at 17/18 years old.  There is a community college route, which most states have automatic acceptance to a state university if a state community college.  So if you are a bit immature and have FUN while you are a KID, you can still end up with a badass education and your exam results from when you are 15/16 don't follow you for life.

I know in my gut that one country is absolutely not superior to the other.  I also know that we bloom where we plant our roots and water them.  I do fear that the USA is unrecognizable to when I left in 2010.  I do fear that there could be a civil war in our lifetime.

I also had MORE holiday in the USA than I do in the UK.  I worked for an employer who did a 9/80 schedule, meaning we worked 80 hours in 9 days (45 minutes extra each day Monday-Thursday, the working Friday was a shorter day).  That was an extra 26 days off a year right there.  Plus we shut down between Christmas and New Years which was a week "free".  Plus 4 weeks of paid holiday.  So was definitely a fantastic deal.  This was a HUGE company with about 20,000 employees.  So this does exist and is absolutely something you can look for.

We've decided we are in the UK for the long haul.  It's hard as we really don't have family here (my inlaws are local but not into the kids, just their dog).  But, we have a good network of friends and our children are thriving.  So, here we are.... at least so long as things remain status quo.

Healthcare. While my experience of the actual care was on the whole better than the UK, the health insurance companies are just wicked to deal with. Then there is the stress of having to keep a job to keep the insurance. And insurance is EXPENSIVE!

Totally agree. Even though we had very good insurance I used to have to keep track of everything in my own spreadsheets and every year had to demand money back from the facilities we had used as they always charged more than the contract price so when the insurance paid out the claims, the explanation of benefits forms (EOBs) would show the amount I had been overcharged and unless I challenged them they would not voluntarily give me a refund.

We moved to the USA in 1987, had a great adventure for 30 years and made far more money than we ever would have made in the UK, but by the time we moved back the USA was unrecognizable from when we first moved there. 5 years ago our son moved back and our daughter now plans to move back later this year.

What about working for a US company remotely?  I consider it sometimes and I guess it would be harder for you as a non-American.  Bet it would pay a ton though. 

Thanks everyone for your input.

What about working for a US company remotely?  I consider it sometimes and I guess it would be harder for you as a non-American.  Bet it would pay a ton though. 

It would be as an engineer in manufacturing so would have to be site-based, unfortunately.

Are contracts in the States more flexible? For instance, would it be very unusual for me to take a slight pay cut for more vacation days?

Thanks everyone for your input.

It would be as an engineer in manufacturing so would have to be site-based, unfortunately.

Are contracts in the States more flexible? For instance, would it be very unusual for me to take a slight pay cut for more vacation days?

Just as the UK, many companies allow you to buy vacation days.  I also think you'd be pleasantly surprised that USA holiday days in a professional capacity are not as bad as rumours you've heard. 

For example, just looked up Honeywell (large engineering company in the USA) and they say employees have between 20-30 Paid Time Off/Vacation Days per year plus 12 extra days (public holidays, closed at Christmas). 

I think a lot of the pros/cons will be highly dependent on individual circumstances. Personally, in my experience, the UK has provided a much better quality of life compared to the US.

Work/Life Balance

I have a very similar job in the UK, and my UK employer respects and encourages a better work/life balance compared to my previous US job. In the US, I worked longer core hours and was issued a company laptop, with the (unsaid but highly implied) expectation to work at home in the evenings and on weekends. In my organization in the UK, only the most senior level managers have the option (but not expectation) to be able to work at home or beyond core hours. A few months ago, there was even a whole campaign to address why employees were reporting putting in extra hours, and encouraging employees to finish on time, and leave work at work. Unless it was literally life/death, anything unfinished today could be picked up tomorrow. It was important to leave on time and have evenings at home with family, friends, and enjoying leisure activities. I appreciate the attention to this, and recognition of the importance of having a work/life balance.

Pay

Certainly, I was paid much more in the US. But for my circumstances, this didn't equate to actually having more disposable income. I have ongoing health issues (even before COVID hit), and most of my expenses outside of living costs were eaten up by medical bills. And this was even with a good insurance plan through my employer. Granted, I don't know how it would be today since quite a few insurance reforms have been passed, but at the time, medical expenses could be significant even with a good insurance plan. I barely had savings in the US, despite my pay being 2-3x higher. I have a comfortable financial safety net here in the UK, mostly due to not having to pay for medical stuff and actually being able to save.

Sick Days and Holidays

At my US job, I had 7 days of paid sick leave per year. I also had a "generous" 15 days of annual leave per year. If I recall correctly, you could buy more annual leave, to be deducted from your salary, but it was capped at 5 extra days per year. Many of my US friends (in other jobs) had 10 days of annual leave, and that would increase to 20 days after 10 years of service. They did not have an option to purchase additional leave.

Where I am now in the UK, the starting entitlement to annual leave is 27 days (though now I'm at 33 days). I also started at 1 month full paid sick leave (and 2 months half paid), and am now up to 6 months full paid sick leave (and then another 6 months half).

Job Loss

I was once let go in the US, and had 3 hours to pack my things, turn in my badge, and leave. I was asked to bring a copy of a specific report to the office (nothing unusual), and when I got there, my manager was sitting there with an HR rep. I was told I was being let go. I wasn't given any reason. Emotionally and financially, it was devastating. I never had any negative feedback, no meetings to discuss my performance, no indication that I needed to improve anything. Just, bye. I had been supervising others, and when I let them know, they were all completely surprised. To this day, I don't know exactly what happened. There was no transparency.

At my next job (in the US), the process of termination was definitely more laid out. You knew the roadmap. So it's not a whole-US thing, but it (totally out of the blue job loss) can happen.

Where I am now in the UK, it seems almost impossible to be outright fired unless you're doing something exceptionally naughty. I can't speak for all jobs, but it seems that there are a lot more protections before a termination occurs.

Healthcare

By far, this is the huge thing for me. Due to the huge cost of healthcare in the US, I actually feel that the door to returning to the US has been closed for me unless I become a multi-millionaire. One night in A&E cost me $12k, with insurance, because they found something that happened to me as a kid that they considered a pre-existing condition. I had completely forgotten about it; I was that little at the time.

I have a family member who can't afford a great insurance package, and has gone to a veterinarian for some basic treatments (e.g., removing stitches) because the vet was cheaper than a doctor. I have a friend who would dearly love to quit her job, and feels trapped because she wouldn't be able to afford the equivalent health insurance package in another job (or one wasn't offered to the same coverage level).

IMO, it's very comforting knowing that no matter your employment status or financial ability, you can access "free" healthcare in the UK.

Education

I don't have kids, nor have I personally been through the UK education system, but it's my impression that the US system has more variability in regards to quality than the UK. Where I grew up, you need at least a Master's degree to teach. In Arizona, you don't need a degree to have been awarded yet (any degree). I'm not implying that degrees equate to quality, but more as an example of variability. I'm sure there's also variability in the UK, but it seems that DFE seems to intervene more than a board of education might in the US? (this is just my impression though)