Where to start?! Visitor Visas, Spouse Visas, ILR?

We're (Caroline, 28 US & Mark, 29 UK) not 100% sure where to post this, or even where to start, but we hope someone here can help steer us in the right direction for the start of our visa application journey.

A bit of background...we have been together for almost two years now. We've visited each other plenty of times and gotten engaged. We're at the point where we're beginning to seriously look into starting our life together in the UK at some point down the line. We've looked into visa application information a number of times, and had a few ideas of what we'd like to do next...we're just not sure what is viable or the specific rules and guidelines of particular kinds of visas.
There's an overwhelming amount of information and we're having a hard time putting our next steps together into a cohesive, linear timeline.

Our original plan was to begin the move in winter 2022. Applying for a 2 Year Long-Term Standard Visitor Visa, having Caroline return to the US every 6 months until the visa expires, before the end of which we were aiming to have married legally in the US (2024), allowing us to apply for the Spouse Visa before returning to the UK to settle permanently.
However upon looking into this further, we have several doubts about the feasibility of this timeline and the visas we aim to use.
> Can we build the required evidence for a Spousal Visa if Caroline cannot work in the UK? Can we apply for joint bank accounts and provide evidence of her living in the UK if she is only there as a visitor?
 > We are saving as much as possible, but even so, having her be out of work for up to 24 months and having to fly back to the states every 6 months will be a huge drain on finances/savings.
> We cannot find any information on how long Caroline will need to exit the UK for before re-entering on her Visitor Visa after every 6  months is up. For example, can she just visit another EU country and come back? How does exit/re-entry on a Long-Term Standard Visitor Visa work?
> Would marriage in the US affect our Spouse Visa application in the UK in any way?
> Would it be wiser to be legally married (i.e. go to courthouse and sign documents) in the US first and apply for the Spouse Visa afterwards, as opposed to attempting to jump through all of the hoops of our above plan which involves Caroline visiting the UK for extended periods of time?
> Would just "signing the papers" (i.e. without the ceremony) to get married legally in the US count as sufficient enough evidence for a Spouse Visa application in the UK?

We still have a ton of questions about the move in general, but we feel these are the biggest concerns we have that affect the rest of our plans and decisions about the years to come. Any insight on any of the points and questions above would be more than appreciated. Thank you for reading and for any help or advice you're able to give!

Welcome to the forum

Our original plan was to begin the move in winter 2022. Applying for a 2 Year Long-Term Standard Visitor Visa, having Caroline return to the US every 6 months until the visa expires, before the end of which we were aiming to have married legally in the US (2024), allowing us to apply for the Spouse Visa before returning to the UK to settle permanently.
However upon looking into this further, we have several doubts about the feasibility of this timeline and the visas we aim to use.

I’m afraid this kind of visitor visa won’t be an option for you. The 2-year visitor visa is only for people in certain specific situations where they have a long history (many years) of regular necessary travel to the UK as a visitor and require a longer-term visa so that they don’t have to keep applying for new 6-month visitor visas.

For example, they need to enter the UK regularly (I.e. every few weeks) on business, or if they have immediate family members living in the UK that they have to visit several times a year (I.e, young children or sick family members).

Visitors to the UK cannot use the visitor visa to ‘live’ in the UK with a partner… if UKVI suspect they are doing this, they will be refused the visa or refused entry to the UK.

So you won’t be able get a 2-year visitor visa to spend 6 months at a time living together, because that would break the rules of the visa.

> Can we build the required evidence for a Spousal Visa if Caroline cannot work in the UK? Can we apply for joint bank accounts and provide evidence of her living in the UK if she is only there as a visitor?

As a visitor, she cannot legally live in the UK, plus she cannot work, be put on bills or tenancy agreements, or open a joint bank account.

However, you can still meet the requirements for the spousal visa without needing any of that anyway, so you don’t need to worry about that stuff.

You won’t need to provide evidence of her living in the UK until AFTER she has the spousal visa and is living in the UK.

For a spousal visa, for the relationship evidence you simply provide the following:
- marriage certificate… your cheapest and easiest option is to marry in the US as a visitor, then apply directly for the spousal visa
- 1 or 2 photos of you together
- boarding passes/tickets from trips to see each other
- letters/cards sent to each other
- evidence of regular communication while living apart, such as screenshots of call logs, emails, messages etc.

The evidence of living together comes later, when you are renewing her spousal visa after 2.5 years.

> We are saving as much as possible, but even so, having her be out of work for up to 24 months and having to fly back to the states every 6 months will be a huge drain on finances/savings.

Do you have a job in the UK? If so, and you earn more than £18,600 per year, you can meet the financial requirement for the spousal visa yourself, without her needing to come here as a visitor at all.

Her income cannot be considered for the initial spousal visa anyway because she does not have the right to work in the UK.

> We cannot find any information on how long Caroline will need to exit the UK for before re-entering on her Visitor Visa after every 6  months is up. For example, can she just visit another EU country and come back? How does exit/re-entry on a Long-Term Standard Visitor Visa work?

She won’t be able to qualify for a long term visitor visa anyway, but for info:

There’s no rule, but generally speaking she should spend as much time outside the U.K. as she did in the U.K… so if she has been in the UK for 6 months, she should wait at least 6 months before returning

She also needs to show she has not been spending more time in the UK than in the US,  that she is not using a visitor visa to live with you in the UK, and she will need to show that she has a life to return to in the US, by way of a current job and a home she is maintaining, plus any other commitments she has back in the US.

> Would marriage in the US affect our Spouse Visa application in the UK in any way?

>Would it be wiser to be legally married (i.e. go to courthouse and sign documents) in the US first and apply for the Spouse Visa afterwards, as opposed to attempting to jump through all of the hoops of our above plan which involves Caroline visiting the UK for extended periods of time?

Yes.

It’s much, much easier to marry in the US and apply for the spousal visa than it is to marry in the UK. You can just fly there as a visitor and marry in a weekend… while marrying in the UK requires a specific visa and at least 28-35 days of residency.

The majority of people on this forum have married in the US and applied for the spousal visa because it cuts out an extra visa application, saves over £1000 in visa fees and saves several months of time.

> Would just "signing the papers" (i.e. without the ceremony) to get married legally in the US count as sufficient enough evidence for a Spouse Visa application in the UK?

All you need for the spousal visa is a legal marriage certificate.

The ceremony type is irrelevant. If it’s legal in the US, it’s legal in the UK… and that’s all that matters.


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Ksand's advice is, as always, superb.

Sounds like you are in love - getting married in the US will solve a lot of problems fast.
I would not try and game the system with the visitor/ joint bank accounts etc. Just do it properly and by the book - if you get found out with something not quite right it creates a gigantic headache.  My brother (UK)'s wife (Canadian) had an overstay on a visa and it compounded their application.  They have now done a registry marriage in order to get the Visa ball rolling and are doing a big wedding later...

Good luck!

First of all, a massive thank you to you both for your replies. Ksand, your reply was extremely helpful and we are both super grateful for your detailed and thoughtful response. Your reply has given us a lot of insight into our next steps in the visa application process. Having someone so knowledgeable take all of our questions and answer them concisely yet thoroughly is a huge boon, and we can't thank you enough.
Mbmoffat, thank you for sharing your story with us, too. It seems like getting the legal documents all sorted first and foremost and having the ceremony/celebration later is the smart way to go!

Do you have a job in the UK? If so, and you earn more than £18,600 per year, you can meet the financial requirement for the spousal visa yourself, without her needing to come here as a visitor at all.

As things have turned out, I (Mark) will actually be going back to university this fall to complete a year of further education and so will be back in a job until summer of next year. Ideally this means I will be in full time employment starting fall 2023, Caroline can continue saving money from her job for the next year, and we can begin the spousal visa application process winter 2023.
Do you think this sounds like a more realistic timeline for us to stick to?

Once more, thank you both so much

As things have turned out, I (Mark) will actually be going back to university this fall to complete a year of further education and so will be back in a job until summer of next year. Ideally this means I will be in full time employment starting fall 2023, Caroline can continue saving money from her job for the next year, and we can begin the spousal visa application process winter 2023.
Do you think this sounds like a more realistic timeline for us to stick to?

Not quite.

In order for you to qualify for the visa using employment income, you must either:

Category A
- Have been employed with your current employer, and earning at least £18,600 salary for AT LEAST 6 months

Or

Category B
1. Have been employed with your current employer and earning £18,600 for LESS THAN 6 months
AND
2. you have earned at least £18,600 in employment income in the last 12 months

You must provide either 6 full months (Cat A) or 12 full months (Cat B) of payslips and bank statements to prove you have been earning the minimum of £18,600 for the entire qualifying period.

So if you will be a student until Autumn 2023, and not earning any money, you will not be able to qualify for the visa using employment income until at least mid-2024, once you can meet the income requirement.

Alternatively, if between you, you have at least £62,500 in cash savings, which have been held in FULL in your bank account(s) for a MINIMUM of 6 months (the total balance cannot have dropped below £62,500 for even 1 day during the 6 months), you can apply using cash savings (Category D).

Have a read through Appendix FM 1.7 to see all the different financial categories and how you can meet them:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1039148/1.7_-_Financial_requirement.pdf

Appendix FM-SE details the required evidence that must be provided for each category:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-fm-se-family-members-specified-evidence


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Ksand very briefly covered everything (just joshing haha).

It's spot on and Border Control are not dumb if evidence builds up that you're coming here to "live" and not visit. As ksand said this evidence is that you have a reason to go back to the US, such as a job, property etc.

I'm one of those that got married in the US and and the wife (the USC) moved over on a spouse visa. So much easier. You could still have a ceremony further down the line but you'll already be married.