Employment Question

Hi All.

So just about to submit my citizenship application and I realised I've hit a personal snag, but that I'm probably making it way to complicated. So in the application, they ask you to fill out employment info. Now, I've pretty much had 2 jobs my whole life, including here in the UK. I'm an archaeologist, which is often seasonal work - so I decided to use my long term casual job that I've had since I've moved here.

This was supposed to be the simple solution. However, upon checking things for American taxes, I realised the snag. The company is a leisure centre that changed from a registered charity to a CIC in 2022. So even though I've worked for them since I moved here, the current tax info for the re-formatted company says that my start date is May 6th 2022. I also went about 5 months without any shifts a few years ago, which means that I was removed from payroll. So even though I've worked for them since 2015, my start date for the former form of the company says August 25th 2018.

I started writing a quick explanation of all this and realised that I'm probably making this way too complicated for this application. They just wanna check that I'm paying my taxes and I work for a legit HMRC recognised company, right?

Should I just scrap all of that, put the "new" company's info and the start date as it is listed on my HMRC account, and leave it at that? They should be able to access all my HMRC records to see that I've been paying my taxes, right? If they want more info, they can go look at it or ask?

Yeah, don’t overthink it.

It doesn’t matter whether you have been employed or not, but if you have, for the Good Character requirement, they just need to make sure you have been paying all the taxes you should have been paying, either through PAYE (they can check your tax code) or via HMRC tax returns if you are self-employed.


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Yeah, don’t overthink it.

It doesn’t matter whether you have been employed or not, but if you have, for the Good Character requirement, they just need to make sure you have been paying all the taxes you should have been paying, either through PAYE (they can check your tax code) or via HMRC tax returns if you are self-employed.


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Yea  that's what I thought. I currently have a split tax code, so I dont know if I should put an explainer with the payee reference for the other job?

I've also just realised something else that may cause a hiccup... during covid, I wasn't earning much. So I did the thing where I shift some of my tax free allowance to my spouse. Because my income has been so up and down since then, I never remembered to switch it back.
I know I could ask hmrc to do it now, but it'll still stay this way till the end of the current financial year. Does anyone think this will be an issue?

This means I've actually been paying more tax than most people do, since my tax free allowance is 11300, not the normal amount.

Ugh, I hate that I do this to myself before every application. I stress over something that will probably be nothing. After all, everything has gone through HMRC as I've never had to do any self assessment.

I just can't help thinking about that news article about the GP years ago who was denied citizenship because she realised she made a mistake on her self assessment and submitted a correction, and the home office said that her original assessment was then a lie.

I'm now so nervous that this little mistake will keep the final step from me. And how can I apply again once you've been rejected??? It'll just make it harder.

Crap. crap crap.

I've just looked on the government website regarding the marriage tax allowance and seen this:


If your circumstances change
You must cancel Marriage Allowance if any of the following apply:

your relationship ends - because you’ve divorced, ended (‘dissolved’) your civil partnership or legally separated
your income changes and you’re no longer eligible
you no longer want to claim
If your income changes and you’re not sure if you should still claim, call HMRC Marriage Allowance enquiries.


You are eligible if your income is below the standard tax allowance. Mine ended up going over last year, but I did not know if it would as my work is seasonal and I never know how long I will have it. My contract for my last job actually expired in January, before the end of the financial year and I did not get my new one until this past May. But this job has a longer contract, so I know I will make over the threshold.

I don't know if I should cancel it now and wait a few weeks before applying? Or would that look suspicious?? Should I add an explanation, or not acknowledge it at all? I honestly don't know what to do now and I am freaking out. Its such a stupid thing to catch me out on for this application!

Someone please help!

If anyone might still be able to give any insight or advice, I've got an update. Regardless of citizenship, its still my responsibility to update `hmrc about my situation.

So I rang them Thursday and explained how life had been chaotic and I completely forgot that the allowance was still active and updated them on my situation. Allowance has now been canceled (although its standard for it that the current tax codes stay the same for the rest of this financial year and will go back to normal in the next). I asked them if there was anything that needed to be done retro-actively, any tax owed by myself or my husband? She said no, especially since it looks like whatever my husband should have paid - I paid since I had the lower tax threshold. I asked if I was in any trouble at all? She said no. I said thank you, as I was afraid when I realised my mistake that this might reflect badly on my character for my citizenship application. She said she didn't see why it would.

I know that HMRC people have no connection to Home Office and that her judgement on the situation won't reflect theirs at all, but it was calming to hear her say it. And also reassuring to have her say I wasn't in any trouble.

I have post-poned my application submission, however. As I am not sure how to address the situation. I am remembering all my other applications where I added explainers for weird situations. And all those applications went through fine. And I know that while its best to make things as simple as possible, its also been good to be up front as much as possible in order to appease them so that they don't have to go looking for anything. So I'm leaning towards just writing an explainer and hoping for the best as I really want to get it out of the way now. If I don't have it all done by end of July, I probably have to wait till after next year. My niece is graduating high school next summer and I'd really like to be home for it. So even applying end of July will likely cut it close to completing the whole process in time, so if I'm gonna do it this summer, it has to be this month. Otherwise, I will need to wait till next summer.

This means I'll either have to renew my american passport this summer and update my BRP or let it expire during the application process (expires Sept 2024). I really don't want to let my passport expire at all.

So I would really really appreciate some feedback if anyone has any thoughts. I really don't want a refusal over something so stupid, and I"m tempted to contact a solicitor for advice. But all the solicitor web pages I've been looking at seem to make things more complicated by saying you need things like 5 years worth of P60s. They also only give, at most, half hour free consultations and I'll likely have to pay a couple hundred pounds just to get them to say whether or not they think this will reflect poorly on me. :-(

I'm sorry you're struggling with this.

Have you read this?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1114690/Nationality_policy_-_good_character.pdf

I think as a general rule, they are looking for intentional and/or repeated wrongdoing. Forgetting to cancel the marriage allowance, which you have now rectified is not, IMO, something that you would be refused for.

I'm a big fan of explaining anything which needs an explanation but I think you need to be careful if you do that, to make it easy to read, crystal clear and unambiguous. I've only read your posts quickly but I'm not quite sure of your situation.

I'm sorry you're struggling with this.

Have you read this?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1114690/Nationality_policy_-_good_character.pdf

I think as a general rule, they are looking for intentional and/or repeated wrongdoing. Forgetting to cancel the marriage allowance, which you have now rectified is not, IMO, something that you would be refused for.

I'm a big fan of explaining anything which needs an explanation but I think you need to be careful if you do that, to make it easy to read, crystal clear and unambiguous. I've only read your posts quickly but I'm not quite sure of your situation.

Hi larrabee. Thanks so much for your kind reply. I, and everyone I've vented to about this, thinks this should not be something that reflects negatively on me as it was an honest mistake. But you are told when you apply for this that you "MUST" cancel it if your circumstances change and you start earning more money. It was my responsibility and I dropped the ball. And so I'm afraid what the home office will think of that. The guidance says

"Deceitful or dishonest dealings with HM government
An application will normally be refused where the person has attempted to deceive or otherwise been clearly dishonest in their dealings with another government department.

Examples might include but are not limited to:

fraudulently claiming or otherwise defrauding the benefits system

unlawfully accessing services (for example, housing or health care) for which access is controlled by immigration legislation

providing dishonest information in order to acquire goods or services (for example, providing false details in order to obtain a driving licence)

providing false or deliberately misleading information at earlier stages of the immigration application process (for example, providing false bio-data, claiming to be a nationality they were not or concealing conviction data)

Where false or deliberately misleading information was provided in an earlier immigration application, you must consider whether it is also appropriate to refuse on grounds of deception.

The extent to which false information was provided should be assessed and what, if anything, was intended or actually gained as a result.

You must not refuse an application if you are satisfied that the person made a genuine mistake on an application form or claimed something to which they reasonably believed or were advised they were entitled to and there are no other adverse factors impacting on the applicant’s good character."

This makes it a bit hard to judge my case as I knew what I was supposed to do, I just forgot to do it.

Basically, I (like many people) struggled with employment and was making little money during the pandemic. So I applied to give my spouse the 10% of my tax free threshold. It saved him/us £252 a year. The next financial year, my income remained low.

I started a new job at the end of that financial year but it was for a short term contract. It ended up getting extended by a few months over and over again till I was let go 13 months after I started in this past January. So I never even had that job for a full financial year. Combine all that with finally having trips home to see family, the death of my grandma, and various other things....and life was so chaotic that I just completely forgot about it entirely.

Even when I got my P60 and it showed I went over the 12570 limit for eligibility, I didn't remember. Hmrc doesnt send you any reminders or anything. Was only recently when I went onto my hmrc account to work on my American taxes and look at the dates for employment for the application, that I saw that it said the allowance was still there. That's when I felt my heart drop and panicked.

I called the next day to cancel it. By the rules, I should have done it last financial year. Because its just how their system works that the allowance will stay in place for the remainder of the financial year. But I forgot, so I'll now have it till the end of this one.

A sane and decent person would hear this and understand its an honest mistake. (Especially since it means it was a mistake that only hurts myself as I personally paid and will pay £252 more in tax than I should.) But will the home office be understanding? That's the question.

So just trying to figure out if it would be best to still apply with an explanation and hope for the best, or wait a few years for it to not be so fresh.

I think you should post on Immigration Boards.  https://www.immigrationboards.com/british-citizenship/

They are a much larger forum and they have seen it ALL there.

You might also try British Expats forum. https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/

The member BritInParis is an expert on citizenship law and will hopefully be able to put your mind at rest.

I do think the marriage allowance thing will be fine but I understand that there's more to your worries than just that.

I think you should post on Immigration Boards.  https://www.immigrationboards.com/british-citizenship/

They are a much larger forum and they have seen it ALL there.

You might also try British Expats forum. https://britishexpats.com/forum/citizenship-passports-spouse-family-visas-uk-196/

The member BritInParis is an expert on citizenship law and will hopefully be able to put your mind at rest.

I do think the marriage allowance thing will be fine but I understand that there's more to your worries than just that.

Thank you so so much for your help! As well as your understanding of my concern. People who aren't in the immigration system can be very invalidating because they just do not understand it. It really helps to have someone say they can see where I'm coming from in this.

Well, I've gone to the places you suggested larrabee. It was good to get some feedback.

Everyone agrees that it should not be an issue. However, I'm getting conflicting advice regarding including an explainer. Most people are saying to just forget about it, or that I'd be doing more harm by voluntarily telling the home office that I messed up my finances.

So I'm not confident in either path at the moment :-(

I always thought an explainer was better than leaving it, so it shows I am being up front about things and not trying to hide anything. Even just a simpler one of saying why my tax code still reflects the allowance - that it has been cancelled but that its just how hmrc works that it'll remain for the rest of this financial year. But then I think, well, if they look into it enough and see I should have done it before the end of last financial year, why didnt I?

God, I hate what the immigration system has turned me into. I was always an over-thinker, but the last 8 years with immigration has basically paralyzed me with it. I just want it over with. :-(

There is a marked contrast between that site and uk-yankee. uk-yankee always tell people to be honest. It's the applicant’s choice on what they decide to do as the risk is theirs.

If you put the explanation in your application, you can never be accused of deception. You can often get around a refusal, but a refusal on deception/fraud is a big no no and can be a 10 year ban from citizenship for deception.

If you are refused (and I too don't think you will be) you will be told when you can apply for citizenship. You can see a sticky on that other site from those who have been refused. You have ILR which allows you to remain in the UK and live outside the UK for up to 2 years. ILR is the end of the immigration route.

Those who don't want to put that they have been dishonest before, in their British citizenship application, need strong nerves for the rest of their life in the UK. Their citizenship could be removed decades later and they don't get their ILR back. Under the Borders Act 2022, the government now does not have to tell them they have lost citizenship and can instead wait until the exit checks triggers their name, then instantly remove their British citizenship. They can't get back into the UK and the Border Officer or Embassy staff, takes the British passport from them.

There were lots of threads on immigrationboards about amending taxes when they had a Tier 1 (General) visa board, with many having to leave the UK. That short lived visa was closed (for obvious reasons) over a decade ago. It was fraud/deception/a deliberate act, despite what they try to claim later.

When you look at what they did you can see why the UK is so strict now and you can see how trivial yours is.

Once in the UK, these could not renew their visa 30 months later as they still didn't earn the minimum to do that, which I think was 35K. They either had to leave the UK or look for a way to stay.

Some found somebody (British citizen, EEA citizen, ILR holder) to sponsor them. Although they had to start their ILR clock again and wait for seven years in the UK for ILR, they did not have to leave.

Some stated they were SE and claimed their taxable income met the 35k to renew their Tier 1 (General) visa for themselves and their dependants: some who were low paid PAYE, claimed they were SE too, to make the 35K. But they didn't pay taxes on that SE: or they did, got their visa and then claimed those taxes back.  When the Home Office discovered this, that other site was very busy with posts, asking if they could amend their previous tax years and pay that tax. It didn't work.

There are some nationals who must report to the police when they arrive and again each time they move (unless they used an EEA citizen to live in the UK). Those who forgot at the time and only did so later, explained that to UKVI on their application and said on forums they were ok.

Others have claimed a welfare payment called Child Benefit from HMRC, but it is a Public Fund and a breach of their visa.  When they realised their error, they paid this money back. They have said they reported this breach on their application and showed the receipt of payment and were ok. 

God, I hate what the immigration system has turned me into. I was always an over-thinker, but the last 8 years with immigration has basically paralyzed me with it. I just want it over with. :-(

The mental health impact of visas is immense even when you don't have a complicated case.

I've been getting support from an organisation called Families Reunited UK, who are also campaigning for the rights of children unable to live with their parents because of the current process/income limits. If you're on Facebook they have a private group where you can ask questions, it may be worth asking in there for some additional peace of mind on your approach.

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The mental health impact of visas is immense even when you don't have a complicated case.

I've been getting support from an organisation called Families Reunited UK, who are also campaigning for the rights of children unable to live with their parents because of the current process/income limits. If you're on Facebook they have a private group where you can ask questions, it may be worth asking in there for some additional peace of mind on your approach.

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Thanks. I appreciate that. I think at this point, I feel confident enough to continue with the application with an explainer. And as you have all told me, a refusal is not deportation. I still have ILR. And my husband reminded me that he is entitled to Cypriot citizenship, so if this goes badly then we can just peace out to Cyprus lol. It helped to laugh.

Sirius, thank you so much for putting it into perspective like that.

I don't really understand what happened with all the examples you gave because I am not familiar with what happened with the people on these visas. But it sounds like they were trying to amend their tax returns to make it look like they met the income threshold they needed for the visa? Is that what happened?

Regardless, it's definitely made me feel a bit calmer. And I feel more confident going forward with an explanation attached. If I put it off, not only will I push my luck with getting a British passport by next summer for a trip home, but I will just continue to make myself sick over this. I put myself through hell with every application, but I always feel a sense of relief when I've sent them off. It's out of my hands then, and there is nothing I can do about it, so I finally get some peace