Citizenship

It's been a while since I've been on here. Just getting off my butt and starting the UK citizenship process. Heading into town to get some photos taken pretty soon. The checklist that I think I need.....

1. Proof of identity. = Passport
2. Proof of status= Marriage cert
3. Biometric info?= Is this the trip to Leeds to get photo/fingerprint taken?  I didn't think I needed to be checked for legal issues again.
4. English language= American
5. Lawful resident of the UK= ILR
6. Life in the UK test= done
7. Time in the UK= haven't been out of the UK in 8.5 years...passport proves
8. ILR
9. Referee= 2 with one a professional. One is the local councilor, the other will be a golfing friend. I ran off the sheets for them to sign....hence the trip for  photos today. I stick one to each sheet, and these referees just sign to make sure that it really is me? There wasn't anything on the sheets as far as contact info etc for them.

I still need to finish the online application and I assume pay the £1580 at that time.

I've seen online some people have been asked to provide a couple of bills etc, but if I haven't left the UK in 8.5 years...it's pretty obvious I have utility bills.

It's been a while since I've been on here. Just getting off my butt and starting the UK citizenship process. Heading into town to get some photos taken pretty soon. The checklist that I think I need.....

1. Proof of identity. = Passport
2. Proof of status= Marriage cert
3. Biometric info?= Is this the trip to Leeds to get photo/fingerprint taken?  I didn't think I needed to be checked for legal issues again.
4. English language= American
5. Lawful resident of the UK= ILR
6. Life in the UK test= done
7. Time in the UK= haven't been out of the UK in 8.5 years...passport proves
8. ILR
9. Referee= 2 with one a professional. One is the local councilor, the other will be a golfing friend. I ran off the sheets for them to sign....hence the trip for  photos today. I stick one to each sheet, and these referees just sign to make sure that it really is me? There wasn't anything on the sheets as far as contact info etc for them.

I still need to finish the online application and I assume pay the £1580 at that time.

I've seen online some people have been asked to provide a couple of bills etc, but if I haven't left the UK in 8.5 years...it's pretty obvious I have utility bills.

What you have looks good. You will need to attend for biometrics again unfortunately but that's the last time!

It's unlikely that you will need any more proof but if there is anything else they want, they will ask for it.

Thanks. The Referee issues kind of confuses me though.....I could have anybody sign and date the paper and the head honcho's would never know. I was all set to impress them with one guy being the local councilor and the other guy used to have top secret clearance in his job.

Thanks. The Referee issues kind of confuses me though.....I could have anybody sign and date the paper and the head honcho's would never know. I was all set to impress them with one guy being the local councilor and the other guy used to have top secret clearance in his job.

It is always a possibility that they contact the referees. I don't remember it happening to anyone here on the forum though.

It is always a possibility that they contact the referees. I don't remember it happening to anyone here on the forum though.

That's kind of the point, unless I ran off the wrong referee paper.....it just asks to write their full name, sign it, date it. How would they contact them if they wanted to talk to them?

That's kind of the point, unless I ran off the wrong referee paper.....it just asks to write their full name, sign it, date it. How would they contact them if they wanted to talk to them?

Their information is collected on the application.

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The Referee issues kind of confuses me though.....I could have anybody sign and date the paper and the head honcho's would never know.

That would depend on how badly you wanted to remain in the UK. It would be a criminal offence under the British Nationality Act 1981 but the bigger problem would likely be the deception.

Yes, I understand that....and wasn't planning on doing it (which I thought was pretty obvious). But again I ask....If I were to just put a couple of made up names/addresses in there....likely I wouldn't get caught. The referee part of the process is.....in my opinion.....stupid, and just adds an layer of annoyance that doesn't do much. You don't have to agree though.

It requires the referees passport number on the application so it wouldn't be as simple as making something up.

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But again I ask....If I were to just put a couple of made up names/addresses in there....likely I wouldn't get caught.

Just because you didn't get caught with deception at the time, doesn't mean they wouldn't match the deception at a much later date. How risk adverse are you?

Under the Immigration Act 1971, you wouldn't get Settlement back if citizenship was removed, which would leave you with no way to live in the UK lawfully as you wouldn't get another visa.

Under the Immigration Act 2014 and 2016, Illegals have their bank accounts closed, their driving licence removed; can't work, can't rent, have to pay for their own healthcare at 150% of the cost. Or, under the new laws, the UK doesn't have to give advance notice that they are going to lose citizenship and can just wait until they exit the UK and then get the immigration officer or Embassy staff to retrieve the British passport when they try to enter the UK as they no longer have British citizenship.

There are no human rights to a family life in the UK;  Article 8 does not allow a couple to choose the country they want to live in.  You wouldn't be able to show that you and your wife couldn't have your family life elsewhere as there are no insurmountable obstacles to you living US: it's not a war torn country and the US has better healthcare than the UK .

US citizens are no longer allowed to claim asylum in the UK.

The referee part of the process is.....in my opinion.....stupid, and just adds an layer of annoyance that doesn't do much.

You don't have to ask to be a British citizen. You can continue to live in the UK on your ILR.

Just because you didn't get caught with deception at the time, doesn't mean they wouldn't match the deception at a much later date. How risk adverse are you?

You seem to be taking this a lot more serious than was intended. I'm not up for any risk at all....I was asking if there was a GOOD point to the referee requirement, especially with one of them having to be a "professional".

You don't have to ask to be a British citizen. You can continue to live in the UK on your ILR.

Just because you didn't get caught with deception at the time, doesn't mean they wouldn't match the deception at a much later date. How risk adverse are you?

Under the Immigration Act 1971, you wouldn't get Settlement back if citizenship was removed, which would leave you with no way to live in the UK lawfully as you wouldn't get another visa.

Under the Immigration Act 2014 and 2016, Illegals have their bank accounts closed, their driving licence removed; can't work, can't rent, have to pay for their own healthcare at 150% of the cost. Or, under the new laws, the UK doesn't have to give advance notice that they are going to lose citizenship and can just wait until they exit the UK and then get the immigration officer or Embassy staff to retrieve the British passport when they try to enter the UK as they no longer have British citizenship.

 it's not a war torn country and the US has better healthcare than the UK .
If you have enough money....I agree.

US citizens are no longer allowed to claim asylum in the UK.

You don't have to ask to be a British citizen. You can continue to live in the UK on your ILR.

I only got 5 years from my ILR, so I have another year before I would have to do yet another visa application....hence, the citizenship route.

I only got 5 years from my ILR, so I have another year before I would have to do yet another visa application....hence, the citizenship route.

ILR is indefinite... hence the name, Indefinite Leave to Remain. There's no such thing as a '5 year ILR".

The only way your ILR will become invalid is if you leave the UK to live in another country for more than 2 years.

However, as long as you continue to live in the UK permanently, your ILR will never expire.

I'm assuming what you are referring to is the expiry date on your ILR BRP card, which would normally be valid 10 years before the photo card would need to be renewed (like a UK driving licence does), but they are getting rid of BRPs entirely on 1st January 2025, and moving everything online, so all BRPs that have been issued in the last few years now expire on 31st December 2024.

This does not mean that your ILR has expired, just that the BRP card will no longer be needed after this date.

See here:
https://www.gov.uk/biometric-residence-permits/report-problem

From that page:

If your BRP expires on 31 December 2024

You do not need to tell UKVI if your BRP expires on 31 December 2024 but your immigration status (for example, your visa) allows you to stay longer.

You will not need a BRP from 1 January 2025. You’ll be able to prove your immigration status online, without a BRP.

UKVI will update their information on how to prove your immigration status in early 2024. You do not need to do anything and your immigration status will not be affected.

ILR is indefinite... hence the name, Indefinite Leave to Remain. There's no such thing as a '5 year ILR".

The only way your ILR will become invalid is if you leave the UK to live in another country for more than 2 years.

However, as long as you continue to live in the UK permanently, your ILR will never expire.

I'm assuming what you are referring to is the expiry date on your ILR BRP card, which would normally be valid 10 years before the photo card would need to be renewed (like a UK driving licence does), but they are getting rid of BRPs entirely on 1st January 2025, and moving everything online, so all BRPs that have been issued in the last few years now expire on 31st December 2024.

This does not mean that your ILR has expired, just that the BRP card will no longer be needed after this date.

See here:
https://www.gov.uk/biometric-residence-permits/report-problem

From that page:

Does this mean I can just let the BRP card run out in Dec 2024 and nothing happens? Or will I have to continue to "do something" every 5-10 years to keep things going? If I was going the UK citizenship route, I was going to have to provide photo/fingerprints yet again.....

If I leave the UK for some reason and come back in with my US passport in 2025 or later.....will there be an issue? (since I would have nothing else to show other than my out of date ILR.)

Sorry if I coming across clueless....but when I look up info for Referee requirements on the Govt site...I haven't found anything that states the Referee has to give passport number, etc etc. The sites that seem to give more info are unofficial sites. When starting the online citizenship application, you get to the Referee section and you can't go further unless you give the Referee info on the page.....I have no idea what is on the next pages because the site won't let you look to see what info you need. One unofficial site states I need this from the Referee
-Full Name
-DOB
-Address in UK last 3 years
-Profession
-Tele number
-email
-Passport number
-How do they know the applicant

Am I just missing something from the Govt site? Something that shows EXACTLY what I need to have. If I don't need to keep renewing something (ILR/BRP etc) then I probably won't go for UK citizenship.

Does this mean I can just let the BRP card run out in Dec 2024 and nothing happens? Or will I have to continue to "do something" every 5-10 years to keep things going? If I was going the UK citizenship route, I was going to have to provide photo/fingerprints yet again.....

Yep, you just let it run out in December 2024. Sometime in the next few months, UKVI will publish details of how the new online system will work without physical BRP cards, how you can check your immigration status online and whether there is anything you need to do.

If I leave the UK for some reason and come back in with my US passport in 2025 or later.....will there be an issue? (since I would have nothing else to show other than my out of date ILR.)

We don't know how it will work yet, so you'll need to keep an eye out for the information from UKVI regarding what you need to do when travelling abroad once BRPs no longer exist.

Sorry if I coming across clueless....but when I look up info for Referee requirements on the Govt site...I haven't found anything that states the Referee has to give passport number, etc etc. The sites that seem to give more info are unofficial sites. When starting the online citizenship application, you get to the Referee section and you can't go further unless you give the Referee info on the page.....I have no idea what is on the next pages because the site won't let you look to see what info you need. One unofficial site states I need this from the Referee
-Full Name
-DOB
-Address in UK last 3 years
-Profession
-Tele number
-email
-Passport number
-How do they know the applicant

Am I just missing something from the Govt site? Something that shows EXACTLY what I need to have.

Given that one of your referees must be a British citizen with a valid British passport, I assume you will need to include the passport number for at least that referee... as UKVI will need to check their passport details to confirm their eligibility.

If it helps, the paper version of the application form, Form AN (June 2022), asks for the following details:
- How you know the applicant, and state your age and profession
- Date of birth
- Referee full name
- Sex: Male or Female
- Addresses for the last 3 years
- Daytime phone number
- Email
- Current British passport number
- Signature and Date

If I don't need to keep renewing something (ILR/BRP etc) then I probably won't go for UK citizenship.

The exact details about how it will all work will not be published until early 2024... but just know that after December 2024, you will no longer need a BRP card and you will instead be able to check your immigration status online.

Here are a few sites with the information that is already known about it:

The link I posted above:
https://www.gov.uk/biometric-residence-permits/report-problem

And various legal sites (there are many more, but I've just posted a few of them):
https://immigrationbarrister.co.uk/why-does-my-brp-expire-on-31-12-2024/
https://www.freeths.co.uk/2023/03/07/why-does-your-workers-biometric-residence-permit-brp-expire-in-2024/
https://www.carterthomas.co.uk/why-are-brps-due-to-expire-on-31-december-2024/
https://www.internationalstudents.cam.ac.uk/student-visa-responsibilities/collecting-your-brp/brp-validity-until-31-december-2024
https://www.turpinmiller.co.uk/site/news-updates/why-does-my-brp-card-expire-on-31-december-2024
https://www.truthlegal.com/why-does-my-biometric-residence-permit-brp-expire-on-31-december-2024/
https://www.gherson.com/blog/why-does-my-brp-end-on-31-december-2024/

Yep, you just let it run out in December 2024. Sometime in the next few months, UKVI will publish details of how the new online system will work without physical BRP cards, how you can check your immigration status online and whether there is anything you need to do.

We don't know how it will work yet, so you'll need to keep an eye out for the information from UKVI regarding what you need to do when travelling abroad once BRPs no longer exist.

Given that one of your referees must be a British citizen with a valid British passport, I assume you will need to include the passport number for at least that referee... as UKVI will need to check their passport details to confirm their eligibility.

If it helps, the paper version of the application form, Form AN (June 2022), asks for the following details:
- How you know the applicant, and state your age and profession
- Date of birth
- Referee full name
- Sex: Male or Female
- Addresses for the last 3 years
- Daytime phone number
- Email
- Current British passport number
- Signature and Date

The exact details about how it will all work will not be published until early 2024... but just know that after December 2024, you will no longer need a BRP card and you will instead be able to check your immigration status online.

Here are a few sites with the information that is already known about it:

The link I posted above:
https://www.gov.uk/biometric-residence-permits/report-problem

And various legal sites (there are many more, but I've just posted a few of them):
https://immigrationbarrister.co.uk/why-does-my-brp-expire-on-31-12-2024/
https://www.freeths.co.uk/2023/03/07/why-does-your-workers-biometric-residence-permit-brp-expire-in-2024/
https://www.carterthomas.co.uk/why-are-brps-due-to-expire-on-31-december-2024/
https://www.internationalstudents.cam.ac.uk/student-visa-responsibilities/collecting-your-brp/brp-validity-until-31-december-2024
https://www.turpinmiller.co.uk/site/news-updates/why-does-my-brp-card-expire-on-31-december-2024
https://www.truthlegal.com/why-does-my-biometric-residence-permit-brp-expire-on-31-december-2024/
https://www.gherson.com/blog/why-does-my-brp-end-on-31-december-2024/

Thanks for that info, it really helped. I might just take a look at the paper version of the citizenship application....I just assumed it would be easier to do the online one....but so far that one has really stymied me with not giving much info on what exactly I needed. I've still been trying to get a National Insurance number so I can do my taxes online....the last tax guy I talked to said it would be easier to get a Nat Number if I were a citizen....and there are a number of banks I was barred from putting savings into since they didn't do business with Americans....those are just in my wife's name.

You seem to be taking this a lot more serious than was intended. I'm not up for any risk at all....I was asking if there was a GOOD point to the referee requirement, especially with one of them having to be a "professional". .

I replied to your question...
"But again I ask....If I were to just put a couple of made up names/addresses in there....likely I wouldn't get caught."

It does seem to read that those who get caught at the time might be better off (if they are allowed to keep their Settlement ) while those who lose ILR as they have British Citizenship, do not get Settlement back if their British citizenship is removed.

Of the US
it's not a war torn country and the US has better healthcare than the UK .
If you have enough money....I agree.

Not being able to afford their healthcare is what US citizens appeared to be claiming when they asked for asylum in the UK, but as the medical care was available in their own country (even if they couldn't afford it) they were refused asylum. I don't think they understand that the UK hasn't found a money tree and even if it should be covered by the various NHS, people die in the UK too/are in pain, because they can't afford healthcare either.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/living-dying-pain-victims-wales-25973385

To stop them receiving limited free NHS treatment while waiting to be refused asylum, the US was added to the list of countries whose citizens cannot claim asylum. EU citizens were also added to that list too on Brexit.

Germany likey has the best healthcare but that is because everybody has to pay, either through their employer of from their own funds if they don't work/have retired and don't contribute to Germany every month. They often tighten these rules.

I'm not sure how correct this for referees?
https://www.davidsonmorris.com/referee-for-british-citizenship/