Secrets for contacting FBU?

To the OP, the last time I tried calling the FBU (a year ago maybe?) it was quite painful but I did manage to get through after numerous attempts, including being cut off.  I think I was successful by remembering the menu selection numbers and entering those before the "messages" had finished.  They say not to do this because the menu selections can change, but I seem to remember that it worked for me.  It's not good that they've reduced their hours though.

These days I normally email them and I tend to get an answer fairly promptly - possibly a couple of days but that's not too bad.  Having said that, their answers are normally pretty useless.

I shall look up your post on British Expats because it sounds like I'm in exactly the same boat now - failure to WEP me for almost a year, despite me telling them in plenty of time, and now a request for repayment.  That's in the topic "Delays at the SSA".

I can't
I can't remember the exact steps in the process, but I *think* when I first applied, it was FBU (or SSA) who called me, rather than the other way around, so hopefully the start of the process will go OK for you.

The problem might be worse when errors are made and you need to contact them. I also still get occasional letters from SSA Maryland (or Willks-Barre), which FBU said shouldn't be happening. I recently received form 7162 from them, with no accompanying letter or explanation. FBU told me previously that I should submit ALL forms through them, as it's quicker (and they send the forms to SSA in the US anyway). However, I have also read online that "... it is important that the forms are sent it back by regular postal mail using the enclosed return envelope provided by Social Security to insure continuation of benefits."

A lot of the detail of my problematic encounters is described in my WEP post on British Expats so I won't repeat it here. I'm just glad that the error I'm trying to correct is an OVERpayment (not being sufficiently WEP'ed). If they were underpaying me - or stopped paying me, as they did for 6 months a year ago - it would be a lot more difficult.

@dunroving Could you point me to your WEP issues discussion on British Expats.  Is it in the 124 page topic on UK state pension and USA social security.  I'm struggling to find it.  Thanks.

@dunroving Could you point me to your WEP issues discussion on British Expats.  Is it in the 124 page topic on UK state pension and USA social security.  I'm struggling to find it.  Thanks.

I'm away from home and n the phone, so have limited functionality to post the link.

My thread title, in the MBTTUK Forum was "Navigating US Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) in the UK".

If you still can't find it, post again as I'll be home tomorrow.

To the OP, the last time I tried calling the FBU (a year ago maybe?) it was quite painful but I did manage to get through after numerous attempts, including being cut off.  I think I was successful by remembering the menu selection numbers and entering those before the "messages" had finished.  They say not to do this because the menu selections can change, but I seem to remember that it worked for me.  It's not good that they've reduced their hours though.

These days I normally email them and I tend to get an answer fairly promptly - possibly a couple of days but that's not too bad.  Having said that, their answers are normally pretty useless.

I shall look up your post on British Expats because it sounds like I'm in exactly the same boat now - failure to WEP me for almost a year, despite me telling them in plenty of time, and now a request for repayment.  That's in the topic "Delays at the SSA".

A year ago I also was able to get through by phone. The difficulties started about 6 months ago. I must have called them 500 times since then with no success.

I'm away from home and n the phone, so have limited functionality to post the link.

My thread title, in the MBTTUK Forum was "Navigating US Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP) in the UK".

If you still can't find it, post again as I'll be home tomorrow.

Found it, thanks.  I've been through a similar process to you - took my SS at 62, started my UK state pension when I turned 66 last Sept.  By that time, I think when I turned 65, I'd already had SSA-308 forms to complete - in which I stated that I'd be getting my UK state pension at 66, value at the time unknown, and other pensions I didn't intend taking yet.  They seemed happy with that and it didn't affect my SS.

When I received my award letter from DWP, I duly filled in a SSA-308 and sent it to the FBU (I'd learnt by this time that you can send stuff to them).  This was early August 2023.  I have only in the last couple of days (almost a year to the day) received the correction letter - basically they've been overpaying me and now want repayment.  The mechanics of repaying them seem impossible, so I'm minded to take the default option and not repay - in which case they'll start withholding 10% per month until they've recouped the overpayment.   I've covered all this in the thread entitled "Delays at the SSA" on this forum.

I will have to go through this all again if/when I start taking my UK workplace pension(s).  I've deliberately delayed taken those even later - I didn't fancy my chances sending more pension updates before they'd even dealt with the first one.

Suffice to say, I feel your pain.  Nothing seems easy dealing with the SSA/FBU.  The absolute best thing is getting monthly deposits directly into my UK bank.  The absolute worst thing is the thought of having to repay them some money - international bank transfer, no, USD money order from the UK, impossible, USD cheque from a US bank, if you're lucky.

Found it, thanks.  I've been through a similar process to you - took my SS at 62, started my UK state pension when I turned 66 last Sept.  By that time, I think when I turned 65, I'd already had SSA-308 forms to complete - in which I stated that I'd be getting my UK state pension at 66, value at the time unknown, and other pensions I didn't intend taking yet.  They seemed happy with that and it didn't affect my SS.

When I received my award letter from DWP, I duly filled in a SSA-308 and sent it to the FBU (I'd learnt by this time that you can send stuff to them).  This was early August 2023.  I have only in the last couple of days (almost a year to the day) received the correction letter - basically they've been overpaying me and now want repayment.  The mechanics of repaying them seem impossible, so I'm minded to take the default option and not repay - in which case they'll start withholding 10% per month until they've recouped the overpayment.   I've covered all this in the thread entitled "Delays at the SSA" on this forum.

I will have to go through this all again if/when I start taking my UK workplace pension(s).  I've deliberately delayed taken those even later - I didn't fancy my chances sending more pension updates before they'd even dealt with the first one.

Suffice to say, I feel your pain.  Nothing seems easy dealing with the SSA/FBU.  The absolute best thing is getting monthly deposits directly into my UK bank.  The absolute worst thing is the thought of having to repay them some money - international bank transfer, no, USD money order from the UK, impossible, USD cheque from a US bank, if you're lucky.

It is possible that you have hit the maximum WEP reduction and may not need to inform them of future reductions.  I have used their calculator to calculate mine and while it seemed like a lot of work to enter the 20+ years of earnings from my latest statement it was well worth the effort as I could see that once I had entered my private UK pensions that no matter figure I entered for my OAP it did not change the result.

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/anyPiaWepjs04.html

I would complete and send in the SSA-308 to the FBU even if you are at the max.

Here is that link to dunroving’s excellent thread on his (and my wife’s) WEP experience while applying for SS.

https://britishexpats.com/forum/moving-back-uk-61/navigating-us-windfall-elimination-provision-wep-uk-949875/

It is possible that you have hit the maximum WEP reduction and may not need to inform them of future reductions.  I have used their calculator to calculate mine and while it seemed like a lot of work to enter the 20+ years of earnings from my latest statement it was well worth the effort as I could see that once I had entered my private UK pensions that no matter figure I entered for my OAP it did not change the result.

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/planner/anyPiaWepjs04.html

I would complete and send in the SSA-308 to the FBU even if you are at the max.

I don't think I'm at max WEP yet.  They've just reduced my monthly amount by $359 (starting last Sept), based on £644 UK state pension every 4 weeks.  I have no idea how they've come to that figure because they don't show their workings out - they'd never pass maths exam!  I've tried using the online calculator but I don't get those numbers - maybe it doesn't work retrospectively.  However, I do know that there's a figure (somewhere in the $500 region) beyond which increases in UK pensions don't have any more effect.  So that may be the max WEP.

Interestingly, the WEP reduction since the turn of the year is $370, so it looks like it increases with COLA?

I don't think I'm at max WEP yet.  They've just reduced my monthly amount by $359 (starting last Sept), based on £644 UK state pension every 4 weeks.  I have no idea how they've come to that figure because they don't show their workings out - they'd never pass maths exam!  I've tried using the online calculator but I don't get those numbers - maybe it doesn't work retrospectively.  However, I do know that there's a figure (somewhere in the $500 region) beyond which increases in UK pensions don't have any more effect.  So that may be the max WEP.

Interestingly, the WEP reduction since the turn of the year is $370, so it looks like it increases with COLA?

I’m pretty sure that the WEP reduction amount does not  have a COLA feature, but don’t know for sure.  My wife’s SS increased by 8% in 2023 over 2022, and 3.3% in 2024 over 2023.

I’m pretty sure that the WEP reduction amount does not  have a COLA feature, but don’t know for sure.  My wife’s SS increased by 8% in 2023 over 2022, and 3.3% in 2024 over 2023.

I'm no expert obviously but the reason I say this is because my reduction for 2023 was $359 and the reduction for 2024 is $370.  That's an increased reduction of 3.2%, which is what the COLA is for 2024 (they round down to whole dollars).  Who knows.

Found it, thanks.  I've been through a similar process to you - took my SS at 62, started my UK state pension when I turned 66 last Sept.  By that time, I think when I turned 65, I'd already had SSA-308 forms to complete - in which I stated that I'd be getting my UK state pension at 66, value at the time unknown, and other pensions I didn't intend taking yet.  They seemed happy with that and it didn't affect my SS.

When I received my award letter from DWP, I duly filled in a SSA-308 and sent it to the FBU (I'd learnt by this time that you can send stuff to them).  This was early August 2023.  I have only in the last couple of days (almost a year to the day) received the correction letter - basically they've been overpaying me and now want repayment.  The mechanics of repaying them seem impossible, so I'm minded to take the default option and not repay - in which case they'll start withholding 10% per month until they've recouped the overpayment.   I've covered all this in the thread entitled "Delays at the SSA" on this forum.

I will have to go through this all again if/when I start taking my UK workplace pension(s).  I've deliberately delayed taken those even later - I didn't fancy my chances sending more pension updates before they'd even dealt with the first one.

Suffice to say, I feel your pain.  Nothing seems easy dealing with the SSA/FBU.  The absolute best thing is getting monthly deposits directly into my UK bank.  The absolute worst thing is the thought of having to repay them some money - international bank transfer, no, USD money order from the UK, impossible, USD cheque from a US bank, if you're lucky.

Glad you found it. I did come across your other thread yesterday but was on my phone which, as you may gather, I struggle to negotiate. Now at the PC and will take a look at it later.

I'm now 16 months post-WEP date (i.e., past commencing my UK state pension) and currently guesstimate that they have probably overpaid me by something like  £4,000-£5,000 so far. If I end up in the same situation and they ask me to repay it, I'm hoping they will just deduct it from future payments (or even stop paying until it's reimbursed).

Regarding the COLA adjustment in your following posts, I recall reading that the amount of WEP is fixed at the amount determined at the assessment date (which in turn is the amount DWP have said is your starting pension) - but it seems plausible they would make a COLA adjustment to that each year, concomitant with the COLA uprate in SS pension. I don't know for sure, though.

Other than possibly trying to call FBU again on days I have the impulse to do so, I've given up on it and am just waiting for them to catch up with things as they did in your case. I have kept a rough record of what WEP is likely to be and consequently how much I have been overpaid so that when "D-Day" arrives the amounts involved won't be a surprise.

My situation is somewhat complicated by the fact they needed to get information from DWP on non work-related NI contributions dating as far back as 1973 (secondary school NI credits) - they have confirmed that they now (as of about 6 months ago) have this information so maybe if the wind blows in the right direction I'll hear from them some time in 2024. I won't lose any more sleep over it, though.

I'm no expert obviously but the reason I say this is because my reduction for 2023 was $359 and the reduction for 2024 is $370.  That's an increased reduction of 3.2%, which is what the COLA is for 2024 (they round down to whole dollars).  Who knows.

I’m near certain that the WEP reduction is not indexed for inflation. The fact that it decreases your SS when it comes into effect means that all future year SS increases due to COLA are permanently less than if WEP had not been applied, they don’t do the calculation every year.

My wife’s annual statements simply show how much she was paid and the increases I mentioned above for 2023 and 2024 are bang on what SS stated the COLA increases would be.

I’m near certain that the WEP reduction is not indexed for inflation. The fact that it decreases your SS when it comes into effect means that all future year SS increases due to COLA are permanently less than if WEP had not been applied, they don’t do the calculation every year.

My wife’s annual statements simply show how much she was paid and the increases I mentioned above for 2023 and 2024 are bang on what SS stated the COLA increases would be.

Thanks, happy to take your word for it.  It's all a bit of a mystery to me, TBH.

Having previously said that the FBU normally respond to my emails, they've now gone very quiet.  I've sent two emails in the last fortnight and had nothing back from them.  I realise it's summer hols but it's getting silly now.

FYI, I've today received a response to an email I sent to the FBU in early June.  Almost 3 months.