Support Efforts for Repeal of WEP legislation H.R.82 and S.597

Can someone please confirm/clarify if this applies only to public sector employees? Or does it apply to everyone who would be claiming SS?

Basically, this applies to anyone who receives SSA "pension" but also receives employment-based pension based on contributions made without paying FICA. This includes any UK pension (state pension, occupational pension), or US-based pension that is based on employment where FICA was not paid. One exception is that WEP does not apply if you paid more than .... 30 years(?) FICA/SSA contributions. If you paid fewer than 30 years, WEP is applied on a sliding scale.

It's slightly more nuanced than that, but that's it in a nutshell. There is a lot of information about WEP online, and easy to find. And, of course, if you aren't currently receiving SSA pension, it is now completely irrelevant to you!

Unbelievably I did not fully pick up on the effective date of this legislation and just assumed it would be effective from December 2024 onwards (surely I'm not the only one?)

per the Act:

SEC. 4. Effective date.

The amendments made by this Act shall apply with respect to monthly insurance benefits payable under title II of the Social Security Act for months after December 2023. Notwithstanding section 215(f) of the Social Security Act, the Commissioner of Social Security shall adjust primary insurance amounts to the extent necessary to take into account the amendments made by section 3.


This means that anyone who was WEP'd last year will eventually get a retroactive refund of the amount deducted!! - certainly brings new meaning to the word Windfall!

This is confirmed in several websites, including https://www.thinkadvisor.com/2024/12/27/social-security-fairness-act-calls-for-2024-back-payments/

There's only one downside (and I'm not complaining!) for those of us in the UK, HMRC will get their own windfall - more in tax - and they did absolutley nothing for it!.

 

Amazon news - I haven't checked into this for weeks so logging on today and seeing this has made my day.

I am due to receive my first UK pension payment any day. Of course 3 weeks ago I got a letter from the US SS basically saying that they knew I had a UK pension (I told them when I first started claiming at 62 - 66 now and eligible for UK) and asking me to provide details. Fortunately I can't do this until I receive my confirmation letter from the UK (I got a text saying it had been processed and letter would be forthcoming) - so I think I might just ignore it!

I would probably have lost close to half my UK pension as only 23 years US contributions - although I had a good few years of voluntary contributions which would have helped.

Thanks to all the regulars on here who keep us updated.

Cheers Everyone

R

Now that WEP repeal is finalised (whoop! whoop!), could people who have been WEP'ed/are being WEP'ed, or people in the middle of the WEP assessment process (submitting forms, etc.) keep us updated on any progress? It would be interesting to know what happens particularly in the following scenarios:

People who have been WEP'ed since Day 1 - please let us know when/if the WEP deductions cease, and whether there is any minor refund related to the actual date that WEP was repealed.

People who are in the process of submitting forms for WEP, do you receive any letters saying the process has been stopped/cancelled and no further action will be taken?

People who were not WEP'ed initially, but were WEP'ed after a lengthy delay and are paying back past debts, so to speak. There are at least two people on here who are in that situation. I'm one of them - it took SSA 20 months to finally process all the forms and start making WEP reductions (ironically just this past week!). Ostensibly, I "owe" SSA, so not only have they (supposedly) reduced my SSA by the amount it should have been WEP'ed, but also (supposedly) have made a further reduction to pay back what I "owe". I say "supposedly" because as per my recent post, the numbers don't make any sense. I'm curious whether SSA will continue making reductions until I pay what I "owe" (20 months of WEP), or whether there will be some sort of amnesty and I'll return to full SSA in the near future (I doubt it, but you can hope).

In the meantime, time to celebrate!

@dunroving - you should be in the clear because it's backdated to December 2023 - so not 20 months, but 8 months and you'll have the refund impact to consider 

I'm in the first category having being WEP'ed since Day 1 (November 2021). I'm not holding my breath on how fast the SSA will work their way through this as I imagine it will require quite a software update and then everything that goes along with that - it could be several months. The "minor refund" that you refer to is in my case (and by my own calculations), anything but minor  - because of it being backdated to December 2023.

All cases and amounts will be different, but the maximum amount of WEP for an individual was $587 per month in 2024 (someone with less than 20 years contributions but with high ELY (Eligibility Year Benefits)). When this is coupled with a related spousal benefit - it can then be $881 per month. Multiply that by 12 months and some can be looking at a retro refund in excess of $10k - which will increase further if SSA get behind on implementing the changes.

Let's see how fast SSA work - I imagine they'll be under a lot of pressure because the vast majority of those impacted by WEP are in the US and are retired public servants.

My retro refund won't be near $10K but I'm still hoping the SSA don't act too swiftly.  Ideally, for me, it'll be after April 5th 2025.  I'm pretty confident, based on my experience of the SSA so far, that it won't happen before then.

@dunroving - you should be in the clear because it's backdated to December 2023 - so not 20 months, but 8 months and you'll have the refund impact to consider 

I'm in the first category having being WEP'ed since Day 1 (November 2021). I'm not holding my breath on how fast the SSA will work their way through this as I imagine it will require quite a software update and then everything that goes along with that - it could be several months. The "minor refund" that you refer to is in my case (and by my own calculations), anything but minor  - because of it being backdated to December 2023.

All cases and amounts will be different, but the maximum amount of WEP for an individual was $587 per month in 2024 (someone with less than 20 years contributions but with high ELY (Eligibility Year Benefits)). When this is coupled with a related spousal benefit - it can then be $881 per month. Multiply that by 12 months and some can be looking at a retro refund in excess of $10k - which will increase further if SSA get behind on implementing the changes.

Let's see how fast SSA work - I imagine they'll be under a lot of pressure because the vast majority of those impacted by WEP are in the US and are retired public servants.

Interestingly, I logged into the MySSA account earlier and it was showing (in the "Payment History" section, drop-down menu from January 2025 payment) zero deduction for overpayments (so, only a WEP reduction), same as my December 2024 payment (so, same WEP reduction but no clawback).

As you say, it will likely take a lot of work to programme refunds, but it should be fairly easy to cancel WEP reductions from early 2025.

Even more interesting (perhaps) is that I looked back at my confusing WEP letter of a couple of weeks back (I posted about this in the "Delays at the SSA?" thread, in case it's of interest). I reported that, in that letter, they said: "You have an overpayment of $1,542", which seemed rather low for 20 months of un-deducted WEP.

It then said, "You received $956 04-2023 to 11/2023. You should have received $697 04-2023 to 11/2023"

It's only just dawned on me that the letter is only referring to 2023 (not 2024, when I was also overpaid, with no WEP adjustment). I wonder whether this (not mentioning 2024) was in anticipation that the 2024 overpayments would become moot (even though the letter was sent before the WEP repeal was signed). It makes a lot more sense now ...

For those who are interested, SSA has posted an update with more detail. Here's the link:

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/social-security-fairness-act.html?tl=2%2C10

The most relevant part is probably encompassed in the last 3 paragraphs - it may take more than a year to adjust benefits and pay retroactive benefits! (who knows what Trump will have done by then )

For those who are interested, SSA has posted an update with more detail. Here's the link:

https://www.ssa.gov/benefits/retirement/social-security-fairness-act.html?tl=2%2C10

The most relevant part is probably encompassed in the last 3 paragraphs - it may take more than a year to adjust benefits and pay retroactive benefits! (who knows what Trump will have done by then )

Thanks for the update. It will be a long wait for my wife’s SS to be adjusted.

Worth much more to us is my application to start SS for the first time. That has been at step 2 waiting for review since November 12.

You'd think that it would be a fairly simple first step to remove the WEP deduction from those affected.  I can understand that calculating the back payment is more complex though and could take longer.  I see lots of comments on reddit that nothing at the SSA is automated - everything needs human intervention - which seems nuts.  However, it does explain why the SSA seem really slow at doing anything.

I don't know whether to post this in this thread, in the "Delays at the SSA?" thread.

Recap: I should have been WEP'ed from April 2023, but it didn't happen despite filling in the relevant forms and multiple attempts to contact FBU over the intervening 20 months. About a month ago, around when WEP was repealed, I received a letter from Maryland informing me that I would be WEP'ed, and stating the reduced amount I will receive. December payment was duly reduced.

I've just logged into my SSA account to the home page where it states what your last payment was and what your next payment will be, only to see the word "SUSPENDED" in red, and text stating, "! Payments Suspended You are not currently receiving Social Security payments." No explanation why, and I haven't received any further letters (but based on past experience, I tend to receive letters about 2 months after they were supposedly sent).

It's just the gift that keeps on giving. Back to trying to call FBU, I guess.

[Edited to add: I also looked at the "past payments" page, and at the top there's a section headed "Overpayments". In this section it shows "Overpayment Balance: $1,542.00", and "Status:  $0.00 / month is being withheld from your benefit payment.".

As they say in the US, Go Figure. <<scratches head>>

I don't know whether to post this in this thread, in the "Delays at the SSA?" thread.

Recap: I should have been WEP'ed from April 2023, but it didn't happen despite filling in the relevant forms and multiple attempts to contact FBU over the intervening 20 months. About a month ago, around when WEP was repealed, I received a letter from Maryland informing me that I would be WEP'ed, and stating the reduced amount I will receive. December payment was duly reduced.

I've just logged into my SSA account to the home page where it states what your last payment was and what your next payment will be, only to see the word "SUSPENDED" in red, and text stating, "! Payments Suspended You are not currently receiving Social Security payments." No explanation why, and I haven't received any further letters (but based on past experience, I tend to receive letters about 2 months after they were supposedly sent).

It's just the gift that keeps on giving. Back to trying to call FBU, I guess.

[Edited to add: I also looked at the "past payments" page, and at the top there's a section headed "Overpayments". In this section it shows "Overpayment Balance: $1,542.00", and "Status:  $0.00 / month is being withheld from your benefit payment.".

As they say in the US, Go Figure. <<scratches head>>

Wow, they are really putting you through the ringer.

Wow, they are really putting you through the ringer.

TBH, I just don't know if I'm coming or going. It completely messes up my estimated taxed when I submit my self-assessment. Luckily (I think!) I'm not a big earner, so I don't earn enough that the fluctuations push me into a higher tax bracket, but it also makes budgeting harder to anticipate.

Wow, I came to the site to ask a tax question, and found all of this information - thanks - will do some reading up on this.

I received my first SS payment in May 2023 (called the FBU and managed to get through about 5 months before retirement and had a phone interview about a month later). 

I received a letter from SSA in April 2023 confirming the amount I would be paid and that it had been reduced due to WEP - I had told them about my US Social Security, which was and is my only other income.  I thought it was strange that I hadn't been told by how much it was being reduced. 

I've never set up a 'my Social Security' account, since I don't have a US address...now I understand it can be done with ID.me - will check that out.

As always, good information here - thanks all!

I don't know whether to post this in this thread, in the "Delays at the SSA?" thread.

Recap: I should have been WEP'ed from April 2023, but it didn't happen despite filling in the relevant forms and multiple attempts to contact FBU over the intervening 20 months. About a month ago, around when WEP was repealed, I received a letter from Maryland informing me that I would be WEP'ed, and stating the reduced amount I will receive. December payment was duly reduced.

I've just logged into my SSA account to the home page where it states what your last payment was and what your next payment will be, only to see the word "SUSPENDED" in red, and text stating, "! Payments Suspended You are not currently receiving Social Security payments." No explanation why, and I haven't received any further letters (but based on past experience, I tend to receive letters about 2 months after they were supposedly sent).

It's just the gift that keeps on giving. Back to trying to call FBU, I guess.

[Edited to add: I also looked at the "past payments" page, and at the top there's a section headed "Overpayments". In this section it shows "Overpayment Balance: $1,542.00", and "Status:  $0.00 / month is being withheld from your benefit payment.".

As they say in the US, Go Figure. <<scratches head>>

Update <<groan>> I feel like these comments belong in at least two threads (this one, and the "Delays at the SSA" thread - and probably also the "Secrets for contacting the FBU" thread.

Anyway, as per my comment above, that I've quoted, after receiving no SSA this month and not knowing why my SSA has bee "Suspended", I received a letter this morning, from Maryland <<groan, again>> dates January 30th (I'm actually gobsmacked it has arrived within a week, as letters from MD usually arrive a month or two after they were supposedly written).

The letter starts, "Based on the information we have, we cannot pay benefits beginning January 2025"

It continues to explain that this is because I have not returned the form "Report to United States Social Security Administration" - not a particularly helpful description. Thanks to Google, I found that this is form 7162. However, I DID fill in this form, I sent it to FBU last November, and have the confirmation of delivery!

This is not the first time I have submitted a form to SSA (FBU) and have subsequently received further requests for the same form.

I've given up trying to call them and will fill in their Contact Us form to ask for help. I'll keep everyone updated.

Piece of advice for anyone sending a form to FBU: There is no point sending it "signed for", as nobody signs for letters delivered to FBU. Better to send it recorded delivery, as you then have confirmation that it was delivered.

[Edited to add: I think this situation now belongs more in the "Delays at the SSA?" thread, so I will copy and paste there, instead. Please post any responses to that version.]

Wow, I came to the site to ask a tax question, and found all of this information - thanks - will do some reading up on this.

I received my first SS payment in May 2023 (called the FBU and managed to get through about 5 months before retirement and had a phone interview about a month later). 

I received a letter from SSA in April 2023 confirming the amount I would be paid and that it had been reduced due to WEP - I had told them about my US Social Security, which was and is my only other income.  I thought it was strange that I hadn't been told by how much it was being reduced. 

I've never set up a 'my Social Security' account, since I don't have a US address...now I understand it can be done with ID.me - will check that out.

As always, good information here - thanks all!

Although WEP is going away ( ) it is always useful to know how SSA calculated it, along with your retirement entitlement. You should never accept that SSA have got their information and calculations correct - I've mentioned before in one of my posts about my own circumstances whereby they had an error in my 1993 earnings - I picked it up becasue I'd kept all of my w-2's (what an anorak I am   ) - a bit of a long battle with help from the FBU, but I finally got it changed.

SSA does have a very clunky calculator that you can download here:

https://www.ssa.gov/OACT/anypia/download.html

Like I say, it's clunky, but it does allow you to put in all of your earnings and income data (UK state pension) and it should calculate and verify your entitlement (with WEP). to know the WEP element, you simply run the calculation without a UK state pension. I've done this with my own data and can confirm that it verifies my payment accurately to the nearest $ and I now know what I can expect back when SSA finally get round to calculating and refunding WEP for last year and this.

Good luck.