Quick question on Form 8833 regarding Article 17 and US Social Security benefits

Hi all,

First year receiving US SS retirement payments - I've included them in my 1040NR and am filing Form 8833 to exempt US SS payments from US Tax. I understand I need to reference Article 17 in the 8833, but how detailed does it need to be, can someone share an example please?

Thanks in advance.
Tim

Hi all,

First year receiving US SS retirement payments - I've included them in my 1040NR and am filing Form 8833 to exempt US SS payments from US Tax. I understand I need to reference Article 17 in the 8833, but how detailed does it need to be, can someone share an example please?

Thanks in advance.
Tim

I've never filed a form 8833 with my IRS return, simply put the taxable amount as zero on the appropriate line on our 1040 for my wife's SS.  (TurboTax doesn't support e-filing with an 8833 and I'd heard that the IRS will figure it out that a UK address on our return means no taxable SS).

Certainly no harm in filing one though.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/claiming-tax-treaty-benefits#:~:text=The%20payee%20must%20file%20a,deduction%20based%20on%20a%20treaty.

Exceptions

The payee does not have to file Form 8833 for any of the following situations:

The payee can claim a reduced rate of withholding tax under a treaty on interest, dividends, rent, royalties, or other fixed or determinable annual or periodic income ordinarily subject to the 30% rate.

The payee can claim a treaty exemption that reduces or modifies the taxation of income from dependent personal services, pensions, annuities, social security and other public pensions, or income of artists, athletes, students, trainees, or teachers. This includes taxable scholarship and fellowship grants.

The payee can claim a reduction or modification of taxation of income under an International Social Security Agreement or a Diplomatic or Consular Agreement.

Same as Durhamlad. I use 1040 to declare  my SSA income, and put zero as taxable amount.

I understand the discussion here, but one additional thought:

US SS is subject to tax in the UK and presuming the filer completes form 1116 as part of their annual filing, then claiming a credit for foreign  tax (UK Income tax) paid shouldn't be possible if it has been excluded on form 1040.

Isn't it easier and more practical to declare it as income on form 1040 with no deduction and then offset it with UK tax paid (form 1116) which will always be more than US tax and therefore there will nopt be a US tax liability?. Any excess UK tax paid can then be carrried forward for relief in future years (up to 10) if ever needed.

I understand the discussion here, but one additional thought:

US SS is subject to tax in the UK and presuming the filer completes form 1116 as part of their annual filing, then claiming a credit for foreign  tax (UK Income tax) paid shouldn't be possible if it has been excluded on form 1040.

My simplistic way of thinking about this is as follows.

If SS is 1/3 of your UK income then when completing form1116 you would calculate the foreign tax credit based on 2/3 of UK tax paid rather than all of it.

My simplistic way of thinking about this is as follows.

If SS is 1/3 of your UK income then when completing form1116 you would calculate the foreign tax credit based on 2/3 of UK tax paid rather than all of it.

Oh how I wish the IRS operated on a simplistic basis!!

Given the complexities of income that is taxable in the US and not so in the UK (ISA interest for example), I'm inclined to include iSS retirement income on my 1040 as income without deduction and then claim my full UK income tax payments as FTC's on form 1116.

Interested to hear the professional opinions on this  @guya for example?