Work in Progress: Visa faq

Dear FMs, we often get asked familiar visa questions over time, and perhaps it might be easier and a better social benefit to make a provisional FAQ. This is a work in progress. For the sake of starting it off, I'll play the naive questioner and then FMs can say what should be done. Later, we'll collate the answers into a more legible form.

Two scenarios.

1. After talking with someone on a chat-board, we decided to meet in person. I came to the UK on a visit and now I want to marry my true love and live in the UK. What can I do? OK, I also stayed in England longer than the six months on my tourist visa. Is this a problem?

2. After talking with someone on a chat-board, we decided to meet in person. I came to the UK on a visit and now I want to marry my true love and live in the UK. But there's a problem: we're gay. What can we do?

ok, now discuss.

Here's t he one I kept trying to figure out:

1.  Can I get married on a visitor's visa and apply for Further Leave to Remain?

We actually had the marriage registrar tell us that this was okay, and there's nothing on the FLR application form to tell us otherwise.  I had to dig deep into the Home Office website to find out that it was not possible. 

2.  How do I go about getting married in the UK?

• 1.  Make appointment with the marriage registrar. This appointment must be after you have been in the district for 7 days.
• 2.  At the registrars, bring all evidence of your identity, legal address, and freedom to marry (divorce or death certificates.)  You will have to pay a registration fee for each person, rather than by couple.  They will also interview you separately, and then together, but there are no hard questions to trip you up.  If you are having a civil wedding, you have to pay for the celebrant and book your venue at this time.  (This may not apply if you are using an outside venue instead of one of the registrar's office, and I don't know the rules for church weddings.)
• 3.  Your information will be posted at the main office in the district for 15 days.  I was a little nervous about having our name and address listed publicly, but it will be up there with scads of other couples, so someone would have to look hard to single you out.  Also, the wedding date is NOT part of the part publically listed, so you don't have to worry about burglars targeting your home because they know when you will be away.
• 4.  After 15 days, you are free to get married any time in the next year.  (Of course, this does not take immigration rules into effect.  These are just the hoops to jump through to get married!)

More about getting registered and married here:
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/marriages/index.asp

Also, you can google your particular county and learn more about what venues are available there.  Unlike in the US, you can't just get married in your grandmother's back yard, on a roller coaster, or in the aisles of Walmart (yes, I actually read about a couple who did that!)  It has to be a venue that is licensed to host weddings.

The least expensive way to do it is the registrar's offices.  Most of them are in historic buildings and have very nice areas set up for weddings, and outdoor gardens for photography.  The county of Kent actually owns a house that Henry VIII built for Anne Boleyn, although I'd be a little hesitant in solemnizing my marriage there!

The registrar will give you a packet of information to fill out with your choices of music, vows, and readings.  Civil ceremonies aren't allowed to use religious music or readings or prayers, which kept me from using some of my favorite music!  You have three choices of legal wording for the vows, which are variations of "there is no legal reason why I can't marry you".  But when you exchange rings, you can personalize those vows.  However, you can't use vows that are used in the Anglican church, which I think includes the "for better or for worse" bit.

Hope this helps.  I'm sure more people will jump in with questions and answers. 

Here's one:

Does NHS count as "public funds"?

Me as a naive Americans thought that it would (after all, the public is actually footing the bill, eventually!), but it actually doesn't.  Fiances are not eligible for free healthcare, but spouses are.  Go figure!

Just to add that they changed the rules in Oct 2002 so that overstayers are not deported any more.  Instead they are given AR. 

It's important because if someone thinks they are going to be deported, they could be stressed into making even *WORSE* judgement errors than their circumstances warrant.   

Also another misconception that gets vectored on the internet:  they will ban you for *life* if you overstay a visitor (student, etc) visa.  Cripes, where did people get an idea like that?   If you are deported, you get a 3 year ban.  If you have an AR, there is no ban and you can apply for a clearance immediately after you reach your destination country.    Longer bans have to be the result of some serious law-breaking, and need to be recommended to the Home Office by a court or magistrate.  The plain-vanilla overstayer does not fall into that category.

The same rules holds if someone is working in violation of their visa conditions.  They treat both situations equally.

Another one:  Everything's cast in stone.  There's been some recent cases where overstayers (spouses and UPs) handled it straight-up, got their AR, and then appealed it.  After refusing the appeal - which they have to do, the Home Office decided that the merits of the application were such that they could apply from within the UK.  I haven't studied this a lot and have no idea what strategy they used to convince the caseworker.  Normally a UP applicant does not have to return to the country where they have residence if they have unspent leave on an existing visa.  But if they are an overstayer, they cannot apply from within the UK.  Go figure.

Another myth that gets vectored all the time:  Americans do not need a visa.  This is particularly damaging because it distorts the view.  *EVERYBODY* needs a visa unless they have ROA or citizenship.   Americans do not need an entry clearance prior to arriving in the UK, they are issued a visa at their port of entry. 

Hope that helps!

1.  If my child is born here, is he/she automatically entitled to be a British subject?

This one confuses some Americans, b/c our citizenship is automatic if we are born in the US. 

If the parents are married and at least one of them is on ILR or a UK national, then yes. 

If the parents are not married, then not necessarily, unless the mother is a British national or on ILR.

If neither parent is on ILR or a UK national, then no. 

2.  'Public funds'

The applicant or applicant's child needs to be on ILR or a UK national before you can legally receive these.  At all.  Full stop.  Just b/c the DWP or Benefits Agency is ignorant or makes a mistake and awards them to a person here on FLR - as a student, for example, or a work permit/HSMP - does not exonerate the recipient from violating the constraints of his/her visa by taking them.  The NHS is not 'free' or a public fund so does not count.  Visit the DWP's website for a full list of what benefits are: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/lifeevent/benefits/

Dear FMs, we often get asked familiar visa questions over time, and perhaps it might be easier and a better social benefit to make a provisional FAQ.

How much do we need in the bank?   

Tam, good idea.

Let me start (you mean anacronyms in general)

FM: Forum Member
OP: Original Poster
DP: Dear Partner
DF: Dear Friend
DS, DD, DF: Dear son, dear daughter
V/I: Visas and Immigration
AR: what was this garry assisted removal (and what is that?)


others?

Now, in reference to lightbulb's original post-- no one addressed the prospective questioner's issue.  Shell, bless you, your answers are fine for a hetero couple.  But the question referred to a gay relationship.

Gay marriage still isn't a possibility in the UK.  A Civil Partnership bill has been passed recently, but I don't think that actually takes effect until sometimes towards the end of this year.

A person in an unmarried relationship could conceivably apply for an Unmarried Partners type of visa.  But to be successful in obtaining one for the non-UK person, you have to have been living together in a "relationship akin to marriage" at least 2 years...and be able to prove it.   

Good point, Tam.  I just went through the registration hoops for our straight marriage, but I have no idea what will be involved for gay partners after Civil Partnership is available.    I wonder if it will be easier or harder, or exactly the same?  Will there be the same restrictions on having religious music or prayers and the like?

Another acronym:

UP:  Unmarried Partner (can be gay or hetero)

And another question I see a lot:

What paperwork do we need for an UP visa to prove we've been living in a relationship "akin to marriage" for two years?  How is it even possible for us to prove we live together when we need a visa just to live together?

I think AR is Administrative Removal.

http://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=6071.msg67850#msg67850

Shell - Fiance(e)s are eligible to use the NHS.

Shell - Fiance(e)s are eligible to use the NHS.

I thought so too, but never had the need to test the theory (was married within two weeks of arriving).

re: NHS (but somewhat off topic)  I was just in England on a visitor's visa, and had to go to the doctor and pay cash.  The doctor's charges were comparable to what an uninsured person would pay in the US at an Urgent Care facility, but when I went to have the script filled, my English fiance was surprised to find that I paid less for my prescription than he would have.  It seems the drug I was on was actually cheaper than the standard NHS copay!

(Not really applicable to the faq, as I was on a visitor's visa, but thought I'd share anyway )

I have moved my overstayer page into a public area, it's at

http://www.londonelegance.com/transpondia/overstay-1.shtml

It's pretty boring stuff, but at least it helps an overstayer put some shape onto defining a strategy.  It's impossible to cover all the bases in such a document, but it may help if other overstayers show up here looking for advice.

Shell - Fiance(e)s are eligible to use the NHS.

When I got my fiancee visa I was told I was entitled to emergency services only on the NHS, and didn't have full coverage til after the wedding.

Well bless my cotton socks!

The Department of Trade and Industry has announced that the CPB is coming into full force on 5 Dec 2005.  It means that same-sex couples who register in a civil ceremony will enjoy the same immigration rights as married couples.  The procedure is pretty much standard:  go to a Registry Office and then wait 15 days, then show up for the ceremony. 

From the announcement:  The process of entering into a civil partnership will be administered by the local registration service. On the day of registration, each member of the couple will sign in the presence of the registration officer and two witnesses.

The Act also allows for same-sex couples who have entered legally recognised overseas relationships to be treated as civil partners in the United Kingdom.

There will be a formal, court-based process for dissolution of a civil partnership.


I suppose that on 21 Dec 2005, there's going to be some massive parties in town.  Birmingham, Newcastle, Brighton also. 

There's more at:  http://www.womenandequalityunit.gov.uk