trans atlantic pregnancy

so - today is my first ultrasound or scan as daddy so cutely calls it.
i'm all of 8 weeks and 4 days -
next thrusday i'm applying for my fiance visa and hopeing to move home to cornwall before i'm out of my 1st trimester.
i'm also wondering why i went comepletely nuts and broke up with him after my last visit there....
long distance sucks and all i know is that being prenant alone in a gigantic city is the hardest thing i've ever done.
pregnancy hormones are out of control.
but i'm feeling so happy and ready to have the world's cutest baby.
(sorry to all you other mums but i'm almost ceartin this will be the absolute cutest - hands down)

my largest fear is haveing my UK doctor convert my pounds to stones...

OH !
we are debating this issue of citizenship still.
it was my understanding that as an american if i had a baby in say mexico that baby would have mexican citizenship no questions asked and american citizenship because of my status.
so if the baby is due october 28th and mark and i are not married but i have the baby in cornwall -
wouldn't baby get british citizenship just for being born in the UK as well as american due to my status.
i was always under the impression that haveing a baby anywhere abroad granted that baby dual citizenship.
i hope somebody can clarify -
we're confuesed
but again:
not married
haveing baby in the uk
british father
american mother.

thanks thanks

Hey Girls!! 
All is going really well here.
Mark has pulled himself together and is doing what he can to move quickly on a finace visa for me.
His family isn't happy and neither is mine but it's really about starting our own family now.
The whole reason we broke up pertained to the distnace and effort to be together.
I couldn't take it really and neither could he but we've got a whole new reason to try.
What I'm wondering is if the pregnancy will help with a visa or be a hinderace???
Mark has an appointment on Monday with the an Advice Counsel so that should help.
If I have baby in England does baby have dual citizenship?
I'm getting alot of crazy advice from people that read that book "Not Without My Daughter" and are suddenly authority's on international policy.
I'm gonna pop over to the Visa section and seek some advice there as well.
Thanks ~
Esther   

Glad to hear everything is going so well!

If your frends who read "Not without my Daughter" were truly such experts, they would know that both the US and UK have signed the Hague Convention which prevents events like what happened in NWMD. 

They would also know that book is a racist piece of ************************.

(sorry, had to get that off my chest).

Esther, I believe that if your baby is born in the UK, he/she will automatically get British citizenship. And, because you are American, American citizenship. I'm sure there's a thread on this somewhere.....

Since the implementation of the Nationality Act of 1981, babies born in the UK are no longer automatically entitled to British citizenship.  However, since the father of the baby is a British citizen, if the baby is born in the UK he/she will get citizenship from the father.  If both of you were American and not on ILR, baby would be American only.  (Probably didn't explain that well, but the old brain is a little foggy today....)

(...dropping by here on request...) 

closet is right.

US and UK law are similar in lots of ways *EXCEPT* about citizenship.  The US system is called "jus soli", it means "by right of the soil".  And the UK system is something else.  So the intuitive notions that an American would have about a baby's citizenship don't work here.

Historically, it helps to remember that the UK once owned about 1/6 of the world, so the "jus soli" system was not practical to administer.  And they began curbing it back in Victorian times, and only the distaff side could pass on citizenship under certain circumstances. 

As closet says, the final nail in the coffin came in 1981.    And it's all nailed down very tightly.  A baby born in the UK has no automatic right to British citizenship full stop.

However, buried deep in the legal mumbo jumbo there are two loopholes.  If a baby is found on UK soil abandonned, and they cannot find the parents, the baby receives citizenship by otherwise than descent regardless of its origin. 

And the second is even *more* obscure:  If a baby is born in international waters on a British carrier and it has British blood from either parent *and* it would otherwise be stateless, the baby also gets citizenship by otherwise than descent.  I wouldn't recommend trying either of these tho'.

I can't remember where I read this, but if the baby is born in Britain to a British father and foreign mother who is not on ILR and they are NOT married, the baby cannot have British citizenship until they are married or the mother gets ILR. 

The US has a similar rule which is detailed on the information package they send to parents of children born abroad - call your nearest Consulate or Embassy and they will post the forms to you in advance of the birth. 

That sounds familiar to me too Expat. I'll dig around and see if I can find it.

I think that was true PRIOR to the implementation of the 1981 Nationality Act.  The act itself reads:

"A person born in the United Kingdom after commencement shall be a British citizen if at the time of the birth his father or mother is - (a) a British citizen; or (b) settled in the United Kingdom."

http://www.coe.int/T/E/Legal_Affairs/Legal_co-operation/Foreigners_and_citizens/Nationality/Documents/National_legislation/UK%20British%20Nationality%20Act%201981-2.PDF

(The IND site seems to be down today, but this is a link to a PDF copy of the act...)

I think the issue is whether someone is the father or not if the parents are not married.  If the parents are not married and the dad agrees to be named on the birth certificate that is probaly fine in most cases. NB: When the child's birth is registered, if the parents are married the mother alone can attend and put her husband on the birth certificate as the father. However if the parents are unmarried, the father must attend to have his name entered.  I don't know what happens if the British dad is not on the birth certificate for whatever reason.  I imagine things like DNA testing comes into it.

Aillidh was born when I was on FLR, and we had to show our marriage certificate when we went to get her British passport, even though her dad is named on her birth certificate.  That may have been where I read that - from her passport application.  I don't have the app now; and I threw the info pack in the recycling bin once we received her British passport. 

Britwife and expat....you were right.  Here's the link to the guidance on the IND site.  Note 4 is the key....

http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/ind/en/home/applying/british_nationality/advice_about_nationality/bn1_-_british_citizenship.html

Thanks for following that up, I thought I'd read it somewhere.  Seems a bit unfair in this day and age really but there it is in black and white.

Right, Esther.  So you'll need to be married in order for your child to have British citizenship or have a right to reside in the UK.  Make sure you show this to your bf is also aware of this.  It might be a good idea to speed up your wedding. 

Best of luck and congrats on your impending arrival!