New Laws for Children Traveling to the UK

Hello Ladies, I have a question. The other day a friend and me were talking and I was telling her how I was going to go to England for Christmas with Elijah and she asked me if I need Elijah's father to sign an affidavit giving him permission to go. I said no (because I didn't the last time he came with me) and she said that her son's father took him to the Dominican Republic and she had to sign a letter of consent giving the father permission to take her son out of the county. We both have joint custody of our children so she suggested that I double check on it before I buy a ticket, so I thought this would be the best place to verify the information . The last time I took him to the UK was 2001 so I thought maybe something had changed that I didn't know about or maybe the Dominican Republic doesn't have the Hague Convention so they're a little more cautious. Either way I was just wonder if anyone had heard anything about such a thing.

Any info would be appreciated.

-alz

See this...

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1052.html

I travel to the UK w/my kids on a fairly regular basis.  I have always carried a notarized letter from their father (my ex) giving them permission to travel out of the country with me.  I have not ever been asked to produce it.  However, better safe than sorry. 

shoot!!! that aint gonna happen. His dad would rather have his right arm cut off than give me permission for something like that.

Do you think the airlines would know?

No, I don't think the airlines would know, and they probably wouldn't even care.  It's immigration that I would be more concerned about.  International child abduction is becoming more and more of an issue, and even though my ex is a PITA to deal with, I'm glad that people are taking this issue seriously.  I can't imagine what I would do if my ex took the kids out of the country without my permission.

FYI - I normally have my attorney make the request for said letter from my ex.  I provide a full, detailed itinerary, including flight#'s and times, where we'll be staying, contact #'s, etc.  Ex decided to take me to court to try and stop me from taking the kids to Scotland once.  The judge did not look too kindly on him trying to deny them this opportunity and he was ordered to produce the letter.  My attorney still makes the requests, the ex still grumbles and waits until the very last minute possible to comply, but he does comply.

This is just so crazy to me that I have get permission to leave with Elijah for 2 weeks. What would happen if I didn't have a letter?

By the way...I love P.I.T.A 

Probably nothing.  As I said, I've never been asked to show it.  

At risk of sticking my nose in where it doesn't belong, however....

If you are trying to build a working relationship with your ex re: taking your son to live in the UK with you, it would be to your advantage to try and work with him on this two week visit.  Don't give your ex any ammo to use against you.

As I said, really none of my business, but I am negotiating w/my ex right now over taking our kids to live in Scotland and as I also said, he can be a real b****rd at times.  I know how frustrating it can be.  But it's really important to be up front with everything.  It's not even so much the idea of getting 'permission' (I HATE that term!) as it is that he be fully informed about your plans.  That way he can't come back later and say "I can't trust her, she keeps trying to run with our son, took him out of the country without informing me, blah, blah, blah....."

Just my totally unsolicited 2p...

(Hee hee, I love PITA too....I have a few more acronyms for him but I probably shouldn't share them here!!!)

I do plan on telling him that I'm going but I don't plan on "asking" for his permission. I was even going to send him a certified letter, so I would have it writting that I have informed him and that he received it. What I have a problem with is "asking" him if I can go. We had a lot of drama last year because he said I couldn't go and I didn't take because we were still in the middle of our court battle and my lawyer said no! So, now that he only has him every other weekend I was going to go on my weekend, so it won't be interferring with his time.

Also, I'm not really trying build a working relationship with him. I know that sounds childish but he's done way too much to me and Elijah. And I just don't feel that it's realistic. So, at this point everything is separate and according to EXACTLY what our new court agreement says. He said he wanted to talk to me about the possibility of me moving so he could get more time with Elijah about a week but of course he has yet to call me or say anything about it. He's just trying to find an "in" in my life. He's a creep. 

So now...I just wait until we go to court again. My man focus is to have Al and his family in Elijah's life as much as possible.

And thanks for your 2pence, I appreciated it!!! 

Hey Ladies,

 I have a question...I know none of you here are lawyers but I remember someone on the board saying that the father of their children was refusing to sign off on renewing there passports. What can you do in that situation? Can you take them to court and have the judge make them sign? Or do you have file for full legal custody? Is there anyway to get around both parents having to sign off on renewing a passport?

Thanks for any info that you may have.
-alz

A friend of mine just recently began tried to apply for a passport for her 5 y/o.  She has custody of her son and his father sees him every other weekend and a school holiday here and there. They have no parenting plan and nothing down on paper about their parenting arrangement. She was told by the issuing body, in no uncertain terms, that if there is a father's name on the child's birth certificate, he must agree to the issuance of a passport. I'm assuming this is also true for renewals. The only way around that was going to take the matter before a judge.

A friend of mine just recently began tried to apply for a passport for her 5 y/o.  She has custody of her son and his father sees him every other weekend and a school holiday here and there. They have no parenting plan and nothing down on paper about their parenting arrangement. She was told by the issuing body, in no uncertain terms, that if there is a father's name on the child's birth certificate, he must agree to the issuance of a passport. I'm assuming this is also true for renewals. The only way around that was going to take the matter before a judge.

Whoa!  Really?  That's daft.  I mean, what if the father can't be located b/c he did a runner?  Unfortunately, it's a common scenario. 

Yeah, when she first told me that I was stunned. Apparently, since 9/11,  travel laws have become more stringent. Or maybe those enforcing them are keeping to the letter. When I applied for my son's passport in early 2001 I had absolutely no problems at all - and I was married to my son's father *and* we had a parenting plan. Nobody raised a brow.

My friend actually asked that question and was told she would have to prove in some way (ie taking it to court) that  the father wasn't in the picture. According to the rule of the law, if the father's name is on the birth cert.  either his permission must be gained to apply for a passport or a judge must rule.

That's why I'm dead lucky that mine is the only name on my kids' birth certificates.  I haven't had any problems getting their passports (post 9/11) or visas or names changed, even.

I really feel for those of you who have difficulties.  I saw this sort of thing happening when they changed the passport requirements, and it's TERRIBLY unfair.

Thanks for the info ladies. I don't mind taking him to court to get the judge to make him, I just wasn't sure that it was something the judge could "force" him to do.

As always thanks for the helpful info.

xxxx
Alz

It was my ex that wont sign for the boys passports. I will probably have to get a court order to get the passports but my situation is bizarre really. He wont sign for the passports but the kids are UK residents. He is just being a spiteful ba$tard. There is no other reason. He cant even see his kids in the USA now because he wont sign. The boys are stuck in the UK because of him. Our case is going to court in a few weeks. He WILL sign but probably under the judges order.
When I brought my sons here I had to get a written/notarized consent from their father. It was also in our divorce decree.
My advice, cover yourself! Dont give your ex anything he can use against you. Do everything by the book. Get a lawyer if you have to but dont break the rules because if your ex finds out he probaby would hold it against your in court and then you'll be lucky if he ever lets you take your son out of the country. Trust me I know all about this stuff!
As for the airlines, they dont care. Its not their job know their passengers custody arrangements. As long as there is a valid passport for each passenger thats all they care about.
Good luck and be careful!