Strange letter from Passport Agency re: British passport application

Faceless bureaucrat scares Wishstar from getting her UK passport. She visits the States and then comes back to the UK on.....what? If the US wants its citizens travelling under US documents, then so too does the UK. The point being is that not only is the letter pointless but also self-contradictory.

I don't believe the intent of that letter was to scare anyone from getting British passport.  I've read it as posted several times now, and honestly do not see what is so scary about it.  Also, to the best of my knowledge there is no requirement for a British citizen to enter the UK on their British passport.

The problem is that it's not a letter that is uniformly sent out. The essence of a fair policy is that it is normative and non-discretionary.

Unless you and wishstar both applied for your passports at the EXACT same time and under the EXACT same circumstances, I don't know that you have a case for the sending of these letters being discretionary.  Perhaps you applied before she did and the sending of these letters only started for applications submitted after a certain date.  Perhaps they're implementing this in backwards alphabetical order, and while they've sent them to the w's, they hadn't gotten to the l's yet when you sent in your application.  Maybe the office that processed her application is really on the ball and has read the memo about the letter sending policy, while in the office that processed your passport the memo has been sitting on someone's desk because they've been out for 2 months with their sick puppy.  Who's to say?  The fact that two people on this forum got a letter and you did not is not necessarily a case for discrimination.

And besides, NOBODY has been told they won't be issued their British passport.  And NOBODY has been told that they won't be getting their US passport back.  Where is the actual harm here?  It's annoying, yes....but I think it's a bit of an overreaction to be talking about lodging complaints w/MP's and advising people to start harassing the IND.

They haven't said they're going to keep your US passport.  They haven't refused to issue your British passport.  They HAVE pointed out that you need to enter and leave the US with your US passport, but most of us duals knew that already.  It seems silly to ask you to confirm that you want them to proceed, but hey, this is a government agency we're talking about. 

I think that closet.hippie is probably right. There likely has been some problem in the past and they've tried to fix it in an ill thought out way - by sending out a form letter that leads to serious confusion as to whether we're entitled to hold 2 passports. I definitely got my passport straight away once I confirmed that I really did want it and my US passport was also returned intact.

The only reason that I qualify this is the phone call from the PA woman. She never said anything explicit but I understood her to insinuate that there might be a problem with holding both a US and UK passports. Maybe I'm just paranoid in a Homeland Security world...

There likely has been some problem in the past and they've tried to fix it in an ill thought out way - by sending out a form letter that leads to serious confusion as to whether we're entitled to hold 2 passports. I definitely got my passport straight away once I confirmed that I really did want it and my US passport was also returned intact.

Government agencies (at least the ones I've dealt with!) are well known for putting the cart before the horse.  There may or may not be a bigger issue looming, but unless and until they give a definitive policy change, the best course of action is probably to sigh loudly, roll your eyes a bit , then send them the stupid letter they're asking for so you can get your passport.  Again, I agree that it's annoying, a waste of time, redundent, etc., etc., but that's kind of the way government agencies work.  I don't think there's anything sinister afoot yet.....

Sorry to be pedantic, but here's from the the UK's FCO office.

"A recent change to US law has important implications for dual nationals. If you (or your children, e.g. those born in the US whether or not they have ever held a US passport) are a dual US-UK national travelling between both countries, you should carry both passports with you. US law now requires dual US nationals to enter and depart the USA carrying a valid US passport. They are not entitled to US visas or to travel to the US on the Visa Waiver Programme."
http://www.fco.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1007029390590&a=KCountryAdvice&aid=1013618385531


key phrase for this discussion is "both"

Obviously someone at the Passport Office isn't on the FCO mailing list.

It appears we are at cross purposes here.  The link refers to US entrance requirements.  It says you SHOULD carry both passports with you, but in government speak 'should' is a suggestion, while 'must' is a requirement.  They are saying that if you are a US citizen you must enter and depart the US on your US passport.  Which is what the now infamous letter also states.  So....according to the State Dept (which is where the FCO is quoting from) you must carry your US passport if you're travelling between the UK and the US, and you should carry both if you are a dual national.  Which I do.  And which I'm sure many dual nationals do as well.  I think this was a poorly worded letter, and that asking for confirmation to proceed with the British passport application is downright silly, but I'm still failing to see anything sinister....

  

Well, unless I'm much mistaken, the UKPA is still a UK governemnt department so why do they feel it necessary to hold up the processing of a UK passport by sending out letters about US Government policy?  Or is the UKPA now an offshoot of the DOS?

key phrase for this discussion is "both"

If "both" is the keyword, then the letter from the Passport Office makes their intent incomprehensible.   Ms Broome is holding the application for the 2nd passport in abeyance until confirmation is received; and she refers to a US rule that says you need both passports?  

This is tantamount to requiring a written confirmation that one intends to be law-abiding.  Which is fully inherent in the passport application itself.

Wishstar, if you send me the unsmudged scan you made, I'll make an enquiry.  

I fully agree that it's not sinister.  But, unless I've missed something along the way here, I can't see this sort of activity being a productive use of public funds.

I understand you, it's not that sense of "should" I mean. The "should-ness" I mean is that the line reads that there's an implicit understanding that a dual national will have both passports and that at this point having two doesn't jeopardize citizenship. The letter is awkward because completely unnecessary. When we apply for a driving license, do we expect the DMV to call us at work and remind us that having a license may increase our liability when we drive? No. So why the call? For whatever reason the civil servant made the call, it must be understood that having an official of the State call a citizen has a chilling effect. Especially in an age when the Home Office is doing sly and disgraceful tactics like calling in asylum seekers "innocently" and then essentially kidnapping them and placing them in detention.

And, to underscore my first point. Since when is it the IND's job to mediate State department concerns?

While my case and wishstar's weren't identical in that we didn't mail them on the same day, they were identical in that sfgirl got a letter, wishstar got one, and I didn't who came in between them. I did get my US passport mailed back in a thin second class envelope that made it obvious that it contained a passport, which shows how much the IND really cares about other states' documents.

btw, Garry, is it really true that there's no requirement for a UK dual citizen to enter on the UK passport?

I fully agree that it's not sinister.  But, unless I've missed something along the way here, I can't see this sort of activity being a productive use of public funds.

I totally agree with that.  I think whoever made the decision to send these letters out may have been well intentioned, but it's a waste of time and money.  If they wanted to include a letter with your new passport stating that you must use the US passport to enter and leave the US it would serve the same purpose and while perhaps still a waste of money, at least not so much a waste of time....

btw, Garry, is it really true that there's no requirement for a UK dual citizen to enter on the UK passport?

There is no requirement.

*BUT* unless you show either ROA or citizenship upon entry, you get whatever you had coming on the passport you do present.  So you'd better hope it's in order.  For some it could mean  no work and no public funds and etc etc.  And they can hold you to it until you go find your ROA or citizenship papers.  So it's a silly thing to do.

To cover *all* the bases, and be *totally* safe, one should carry both passports and get the ROA stamp.  It's the only way to get everything locked down tight 110%.

Having said that, I can admit that I don't have the ROA stamp simply because I can't be arsed to fill out the forms and send the money.  But I will do it next time I renew my US passport...

ROA = Right of Abode.

Right, Garry? 

Oh - and I agree that taking the time to think up, write out and send a letter like this is a very very very poor use of the public's money.

I sent my UK passport application off last week.
waiting to see if i will get one of those letters...

Well, this has been a very interesting discussion!   

I can tell you that is was not a Mrs Broone who sent me the letter, but perhaps they both work in Peterbourgh? 

I'm going to send off my response today. 

What really gets me is that not only did they send this completely unnecessary letter to me, requiring more action and more delay...but they also sent another letter a day or two before to my countersignatory and had him reconfirm what he'd already confirmed on the application!  Are they really so board up there in the passport agency?  Maybe boredom is the real reason behind this civil service strike on Wednesday....they've just got nothing better to do.   

And while I don't think this is a case to take to my MP (yet!) I do agree it's been a complete waste of time and energy.  A letter reminding me to check with the US govt about the rules for traveling there enclosed with my new passport would have been entirely sufficient.  Their approach has been rather bad if they are really just looking out for my interestes so I don't blame them when I get thrown in jail for being a suspected terrorist next time I go home for Thanksgiving.   

We shall see what happens early next week hopefully.

While my case and wishstar's weren't identical in that we didn't mail them on the same day, they were identical in that sfgirl got a letter, wishstar got one, and I didn't who came in between them. I did get my US passport mailed back in a thin second class envelope that made it obvious that it contained a passport, which shows how much the IND really cares about other states' documents.

I filled in my application online and there was an option to have your documents returned securely; it cost about £3. Three or four days after I confirmed that "yes, I did really want a UK passport" my US passport was returned by courier, the next day the same guy delivered the UK one. Definitely worth the money.

Lightbulb, wishstar - Did you apply online?