Church & Religion

I was raised & confirmed in the United Methodist Church -- via 'You will go to church every Sunday or suffer your mother's wrath!'  Being able to consider things & think for yourself was never an option.  Fortunately, I am well on my way to recovery from all that now.  Whew!  Steve's dad is a vehement atheist although his parents do have some admiration for eastern religion such as Buddhism.  My second husband was an atheist & that's what got me thinking finally - when I was around 30.  I am soooooo happy to be England (and Europe in general) - on this particular score now -- vs being in the United States.  In the States -- to admit that you don't believe (gasp!) and that you are not a Christian (horror!) is to become an instant pariah (IMO).  I hated it.  So much for 'separation of church & state' and 'freedom of religion' -- i.e., freedom of religion as long as you practice religion and as long as that religion is Christianity...  I am simply appalled at the turn of events that has evolved on this issue stateside, through recent decades -- the founding fathers must be turning in their graves?  I am no big fan of Thomas Jefferson -- I know he had his skeletons in the closet (doesn't everyone?) -- but GREAT quotes on this very subject:

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors.
--Thomas Jefferson

I do like visiting the beautiful old churches (like belindaloo) -- as a piece of history.  Great contemplative poem on the subject:  Church Going by Philip Larkin

http://edu.gsnu.ac.kr/~songmu/Poetry/ChurchGoing.htm

I love the line...In whose blent air all our compulsions meet

I am soooooo happy to be England (and Europe in general) - on this particular score now -- vs being in the United States.  In the States -- to admit that you don't believe (gasp!) and that you are not a Christian (horror!) is to become an instant pariah (IMO).  I hated it.  So much for 'separation of church & state' and 'freedom of religion' -- i.e., freedom of religion as long as you practice religion and as long as that religion is Christianity...  I am simply appalled at the turn of events that has evolved on this issue stateside, through recent decades -- the founding fathers must be turning in their graves? 

AMEN!

<lol>

My DF and I are both conservative Roman Catholics, and both active in our respective parishes.  I attended his Church when I was in England and enjoyed it very much, and we will marry in mine next year here in the States.  I think I will miss the open acceptance of Christianity when I leave the States, as well as the huge and lively Catholic presence here.  But we will fight the good fight together and make our way within his little parish.

 

~Liza

AMEN!

<lol>

Hee hee & don't EVEN get me started on the 'well-meaning' folk who, upon learning of your atheistic bent, begin asking ridiculous questions regarding your practice of witchcraft or Satan worship.  Oh, the stupidity!

Hee hee & don't EVEN get me started on the 'well-meaning' folk who, upon learning of your atheistic bent, begin asking ridiculous questions regarding your practice of witchcraft or Satan worship.  Oh, the stupidity!

Really? That's never happened to me.

Really? That's never happened to me.

Well...have you traveled through middle (bible-beating) America & spoke of being atheistic much?

Er no and I don't think I'll bother, thanks    I generally don't even mention it unless someone asks me what my religion is. 

Er no and I don't think I'll bother, thanks    I generally don't even mention it unless someone asks me what my religion is. 

Wise woman.  Unfortunately, some of us were born under that rock.

Caroline - what a wonderful poem.  I haven't read much Larkin, apart from
An Arundel Tomb (http://www.poemhunter.com/p/m/poem.asp?poet=6611&poem=31857) but the one you posted covers so many issues for a lapsed Anglican turned atheist!

I am one of those crazy liberals --- active in Amnesty International and very vocal about what I believe in (tho not, I hope, in an annoying way).  Anyway, here at work (in the Heart of the Bible Belt) one of those e-mail questionaires got forwarded around and you had to answer questions about the person who sent it to you.  One of the questions was 'do you believe in God.'

I thought it was pretty funny that every single person in my office thought I didn't believe in God because of my political beliefs!!  I pointed out to them that I am the only one of them to go to sunday school. 

Caroline - what a wonderful poem.  I haven't read much Larkin, apart from
An Arundel Tomb (http://www.poemhunter.com/p/m/poem.asp?poet=6611&poem=31857) but the one you posted covers so many issues for a lapsed Anglican turned atheist!

Yes (sorry to hijack--perhaps HME & I should start the poetry discussion link?) - I know An Arundel Tomb as well.  I think Church Going is a fine poem -- got me into reading Larkin actually (along with a good friend's influence).  It does stand on its own, but if you happen to know anything about Larkin's life -- I would say he was pretty much agnostic (possibly atheist?) yet I think he believed somehow in the importance of preserving the Anglican church for the purpose of tradition & ritual that it served.  Interesting dichotomy.

I am one of those crazy liberals --- active in Amnesty International and very vocal about what I believe in (tho not, I hope, in an annoying way).  Anyway, here at work (in the Heart of the Bible Belt) one of those e-mail questionaires got forwarded around and you had to answer questions about the person who sent it to you.  One of the questions was 'do you believe in God.'

I thought it was pretty funny that every single person in my office thought I didn't believe in God because of my political beliefs!!  I pointed out to them that I am the only one of them to go to sunday school. 

I respect that.  Just wish there were more of you!  (It would give the whole ideology less of a black eye.)

WOW - good thread

I was raised Lutheran, but not like the aforementioned brand of Lutheranism. I was raised to question the church as much as I want and was taught a more loving God and overall Christianity. I didn't have to go to church every sunday, but did attend sunday school til I was confirmed.

Steve's dad was a preacher, which affected him negatively - he can comment if he likes. Basically, I don't think he's coming w/ me to church anytime soon.

I haven't been to one in a while b/c I am so stuck on the one i was raised in. I really liked the church (it was almost 100yrs old) and the services (very conservative). I have to get out of that though and realize times change and maybe i can get back into church going again, even if 1x a month. I'd rather not go every week.

I am a practicing Catholic.  DF was born and raised Catholic--Catholic school, church a couple times a week the whole nine yards.  He is now in a personal conflict with his faith and doesn't attend church unless it is a holiday and he's going with me.

We are getting married in my church at home (same one my folks we married in) and while the Priest would prefer that Paul be an "active" member of the church, he is glad to be marrying us regardless (Paul will not be taking communion because of his stance at the moment).  Any and all children that we buy (err...I mean adopt) will be raised Catholic.

I am a christian ... but I wont condemn anyone who doesnt share my belief. to me its personal. My dad was atheist and after coming to the US he left us for someone else. we went through a lot and he left us literally penniless. I didnt attend church when I was young, but quietly 'talked' to my 'heavenly Father'. I think some of it was my way of dealing with the heartbreak. Anyway my 'God, my Father' has never let me down and I just believe in him in my heart. I never have understood though how some people can be so pushy to the extent I think they actually push people away from religion. ( I have grown up in the 'Bible belt')