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Topic: British plumbing  (Read 11299 times)

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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2007, 04:32:46 PM »
This thread is reminding me of a conversation I witnessed between a Greek friend and a British friend....went something like well, we've got much better plumbing in Greece....British friend says nothing wrong with the plumbing here- works fine for me.....Greek friend says it's like the space in houses here- too small- in Greece we build spacious rooms- too many doors in UK houses......British friend says well, we've always managed, but it is an island and not much room and lots of people.....Greek friend says....uh, we're an island too!.....British friend says but we have better job opportunities here.....

blah di blah

both right- just funny to listen to them.....everyone has different preferences....


Re: British plumbing
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2007, 05:05:58 PM »
Has anyone ever imported US/Canadaian toilets?  If I buy a place, that is actually something I was considering, but was wondering if anyone has had any experience doing so.

Wait..... what?


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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2007, 05:34:33 PM »
Having two separate taps on the basin in a bathroom doesn't worry me in the slightest.   Maybe it's because I grew up with that arrangement.   In fact even when it comes to kitchen mixers I'm choosy.  The ones which still have separate hot and cold controls are fine, but I'm not at all keen on the single-handle types (e.g. lift to turn on, move left/right for hot/cold).  The ones in which the control looks like a knob you turn but in fact it just moves up/down or forward/back and left/right I dislike even more. 

There is quite a lot of "That's the way we've always done it" when it comes to British plumbing techniques.  Of course, it isn't the way it's always been done, but more a case of the way it's usually been done within living memory.  This is changing, but only slowly.    The drain/waste system is probably the best example of this.   A century ago it was standard practice to have all waste outlets except the W.C. discharging over a gulley, that gulley then having another trap below before connecting to the main sewer line.   Other methods have been employed since, but even today that old system is still being fitted to new homes in some cases, even though it's far from being the best arrangement, often results in clogs, bad odors, etc.

I'm far from being one to advocate change for the sake of it, and often take the view that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," but plumbing is one area where we could certainly stand some improvements.

While being more directed at domestic equipment in general, this article does a good job of summarizing the reluctance to change or adopt things in Britain.  Notice the date on the bottom of this piece;  that reluctance is still there to some degree today:

A different attitude to domestic equipment


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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2007, 05:45:31 PM »
Sorry to make some giggle, but I think 'deep drop' toilet is more prone to mess and odor than an American one.  I've never really liked them.

Or maybe I'm just full of it.  :o


Re: British plumbing
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2007, 05:53:01 PM »
Okay wait a second... I just want to be clear on this.

A "mixer" tap is like a standard American tap which has one spout and two adjusters for the temp, hot and cold. Correct?

And "separate" taps are actually one for scalding hot water that has its own spout and handle while there is a second next to it for cold with its own spout and handle?

This seems really odd to me... so I just wanted to be sure I wasn't getting confused.

Thanks!


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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2007, 06:01:34 PM »
Quote
A "mixer" tap is like a standard American tap which has one spout and two adjusters for the temp, hot and cold. Correct?

And "separate" taps are actually one for scalding hot water that has its own spout and handle while there is a second next to it for cold with its own spout and handle?

Correct.  Anything where both hot and cold emerge from the same spout is a mixer tap.  It might be two separate control knobs or a single multi-directional control.

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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2007, 06:03:13 PM »
Correct.  Anything where both hot and cold emerge from the same spout is a mixer tap.  It might be two separate control knobs or a single multi-directional control.

Thanks for the clarification. I wonder if I'll have these separate taps in my student flat. Do these separate taps just occur in kitchens and or bathroom sinks or do they also appear in bathtubs?


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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2007, 06:11:33 PM »
Can a mixer tap be adjusted should the water pressure from the hot water be greater than the cold, etc? 

Yea, I know you can turn one up and one down (doh) but I've actually encountered some places (probably with an older mixer system) in which turning the hot to a certain point 'overwhelmed' the cold such that no cold water could enter the mix.  It would go from 'almost right' to '100% hot' with just a milimeter of a turn. 

I often wondered if there was some other adjustment that could help balance things...


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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2007, 07:11:43 PM »
I don't know about adjusting pressure, but my boiler allows me to adjust the temperature so that the hot tap isn't scalding hot. I happen to like scalding hot water, so I leave mine on high, but for people with small children it's a good way of making sure they don't get hurt.
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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2007, 07:19:20 PM »
Quote
I wonder if I'll have these separate taps in my student flat. Do these separate taps just occur in kitchens and or bathroom sinks or do they also appear in bathtubs?

Have a read through my post right at the top of this thread.    You'll find separate taps on bathtubs to be very common, except where they also feed an integral shower attachment.   Kitchen sinks are the most common application of mixer taps here, and even then there are plenty of old ones still in use with separate faucets.

Quote
It would go from 'almost right' to '100% hot' with just a milimeter of a turn.

This is probably where the wrong type of mixer tap has been used for the system.   I described the plumbing arrangements in more detail at the top of this thread, but I'll recap.  When it comes to a wash-basin or bathtub there are several arrangements you can encounter:

1.  The "traditional" system in which both hot and cold are fed from the cistern in the attic.  Both are therefore at the same low pressure and a conventional mixer tap can be used.

2.  The "high-pressure" system, most usually associated with the modern British combi-boiler which heats water on demand as it passed through.  There is no separate storage cistern, and thus both hot and cold outlets are at the same high pressure.  Again, a conventional mixer can be employed.  More recently still, we've started to get pressurized hot-water storage systems which also give the same high pressure at both outlets -- This is similar to the standard American arrangement.

3.  A hybrid system in which the hot water comes from an open storage cistern in the attic, and is thus at low pressure, but the cold comes directly from the supply and is at a much higher pressure.   This can be found in rural properties, homes where plumbing has been altered over the years, or sometimes just where it fitted more conveniently with the design. 

Even with the traditional system where most of the cold taps come from the cistern in the attic, the cold tap on the kitchen sink was always connected directly to the supply to provide a source of clean, unstored water for drinking and cooking. 

It's where you get this combination of high-pressure cold and low-pressure hot that the problem arises.  The conventional mixer tap behaves in just the way you describe.  Cracking the high-pressure cold open just slightly more can often overwhelm the low-pressure hot to the extent that it changes from scalding to freezing very quickly.

That's why kitchen mixers here are designed with concentric tubes in the spout.  The water doesn't actually mix anywhere within the tap or spout at all.  All the mixing is done as the water leaves the concentric spouts, thus obviating the problem of the pressure differential.    If somebody uses a conventional mixer in this position, then control becomes very difficult.

Quote
I often wondered if there was some other adjustment that could help balance things...

Not directly.  Obviously if both hot and cold are fed from the same cistern or both from the same supply line then the pressure will always be the same anyway. 

The only really effective way to use a conventional mixer with different pressure supplies is to use an intermediate pressure-equalizing valve.  This would be the only way for a shower, for example, where obviously the hot and cold need to mix before leaving the head.

The pressure-equalizer allows hot and cold to flow through without ever coming into contact, but the pressure of the cold is reduced to match that of the hot.  These equalizing valves aren't particularly cheap though, so are rarely used in the average domestic system.

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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2007, 07:22:36 PM »
my boiler allows me to adjust the temperature so that the hot tap isn't scalding hot

For those in hard-water areas (practically the whole of London, eastern, and southeastern England, plus a fair chunk of the midlands too) keeping temperature down to 140 degrees or so also helps to reduce the accumulation of limescale.

If you're using an electric immersion heater, there will be a thermostat actually on the cylinder itself which allows a similar adjustment of temperature.   You generally have to remove the cover where the electrical connection goes to the element to reach the adjuster -- That does involve exposing energized 240V terminals, so be careful and switch off the supply first if in doubt!
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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2007, 07:27:08 PM »
Am I the only American who's been trapped in the loo in someone else's home because there was 'stuff' in the bowl and it took ages to get the toilet to flush?


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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2007, 07:37:49 PM »
Am I the only American who's been trapped in the loo in someone else's home because there was 'stuff' in the bowl and it took ages to get the toilet to flush?

Nope. Most embarrassing thing EVER.
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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #28 on: April 07, 2007, 12:19:43 AM »
I know you prefer your separate taps Q-G. But I loathe them. I hate trying not to burn myself when the hot tap suddenly gets hotter and now that I have a baby, I'm worried he could burn himself, too. To me, mixer taps aren't just easier to use, but safer. Sorry.

That's what I think too. I worry about burning myself and if I had kids it would be a greater concern. A lot of schools and day care centers adjust the heating on the water so it doesn't get too hot. I wouldn't mind the separate taps over there if I could find a way to just adjust the hot water tap for the sinks to not get so hot. Is there a way to do that for just the sinks? Sorry if it's been answered already and I just missed it.

Am I the only American who's been trapped in the loo in someone else's home because there was 'stuff' in the bowl and it took ages to get the toilet to flush?

My first trip over there I couldn't get the toilet to flush and finally DB came to help me. Our relationship was pretty new and I was so embarassed. I had such trouble getting them to flush. I had this problem again in February at his parents house. It was my first time meeting them too! Luckily it just took a couple of tries and I got it.  :(

Plumbing there is just taking some getting used to for me. On my first trip, I didn't know about the switch to turn on the electric shower and was just about to resign myself to a cold shower when DB finally explained it to me.


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Re: British plumbing
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2007, 01:03:34 AM »
My first trip over there I couldn't get the toilet to flush and finally DB came to help me. Our relationship was pretty new and I was so embarassed.

On my first visit, DH and I stayed in a B&B and I couldn't get the stupid thing to flush...ever. What a way to get to know each other ::)
« Last Edit: April 07, 2007, 01:05:13 AM by tristessa »


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