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Topic: work attitudes  (Read 5350 times)

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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2005, 08:18:39 PM »
Again I have to say that it is just great if you can just suck it up when you need the money to put food on the table, but I don't believe there's anything wrong with a person who can't do that.

Sure, if you're independently wealthy.  But for me it would be really wrong if I couldn't seem to keep a job and pay the rent and bills. 

Afraid I haven't noticed a really big difference between what British and American employer expect from their employees.  It's always seemed quite simple to me in both places:  either to the job they pay me for - and pretend to like it - or a) face the sack b) find another job and move on. 


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2005, 08:21:52 PM »
Ah, a discussion! If anyone is still reading, I'll explain: the ESL jobs were most assuredly
without a contract, and as I have five years of teaching behind me, it was very fishy. But as
the same thing happened twice, without warning, it was very disheartening, and I'm not too
eager to try teaching English here.

As far as the temp office job, I was quite happy there. What was strange was about a week or
two ago I started feeling very unhappy. I had liked it because, frankly, it was incredibly easy and
low-pressure, and as far as having work to do, they would apologize that there was nothing to
do (it was a very small office) and I'd shrug and smile and go back to reading the internet. Bad
idea, I guess- I know jobs aren't mini-benefits offices and maybe I was feeling a bit too comfortable.
I had worried that I'd be fired because there was nothing to do, and at first I'd ask them for work.
Eventually I stopped, and settled into reading Exquisite Corpse online. And then I was sacked!


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2005, 08:27:31 PM »
No need to be sorry that you struck a nerve. Nothing I love better than a good debate. Funny you should say, though, that anyone who can't just suck it up when money is needed is considered unreliable and unemployable, because they sure are in good company. I could give you example after example of our greatest who had that characteristic. Buckminster Fuller and Tom Wolfe. Madonna. J.K. Rowlings. Whoopie Goldberg. Steve Jobs. Often these are the folks who make good entrepreneurs or self-employed, which is just what the original writer is proposing to be, and me too for that matter. I'll work temp to gather in a few quid, but I'll only work short term assignments, because I'm really not open to long terming the type of jobs that temp agencies have.

Second point. Who said she was whinging (me, I'll whine if anything, whing is one word I won't adopt)? Could be a person just finds it hard to put on a false face. Some folks are just easy to read and kind of like themselves that way. My experience temping is that often the jobs were things that required a lot of waiting around, like answering phones when they weren't ringing (wander off to ask for more to do and you aren't doing the job you werre hired for), printing out vast numbers of letters and envelopes to later be stuffed, Xeroxing and Xeroxing and Xeroxing (again, wander off and you're not doing the job). I'll grant you that there's usually something else you can do with a permanent job, but that's not always welcome either. Especially when you happen to be innovative and think up your own more efficient way of doing something. Also, sometimes trying to change yourself and things around so that what doesn't fit will fit is just putting off the right solution to the problem. I was good at science, got my grant funded on the first go round, which almost never happens, but it wasn't good for me.

3rd point. Why go for the job in the first place if it's not a good fit? Same reason they chose you for it. They thought it might be a decent fit and so did you. Both employers and employees make that mistake all the time because neither have working crystal balls, employers need workers now and don't always have the ideal candidates to choose from and employees need money and don't always have the ideal candidate jobs available. Why blame anybody? Both ways? I didn't understand that. What are the two ways you're talking about?

I know you're trying to be practical. I think that being practical leads an awful lot of people to lives of quiet desperation, and that being impractical often leads to interesting lives. How did you manage to make the leap across the pond at all without suspending practicality for a moment or two?

DJC




Re: work attitudes
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2005, 08:37:31 PM »
I know you're trying to be practical. I think that being practical leads an awful lot of people to lives of quiet desperation, and that being impractical often leads to interesting lives. How did you manage to make the leap across the pond at all without suspending practicality for a moment or two?

I guess my persective is different now that I have a family to support.  JK Rowling had, as well, that's why she worked as a supply teacher whilst writing her novel.  A pal loaned her the money for childcare so she could get the PGCE she needed to qualify to teach.  Even the great Sylvia Plath would wake at 4AM to write before her children woke in the morning. 

I've had to adapt the same blend of practicality with reality to achieve my goal of becoming a human rights solicitor.  It's a process that's going to take me about 8 years to fully qualify. 

I'm all about following your heart and your dreams and pursuing your goals.  But when it comes to the point that you have trouble keeping a job at all, I don't think it's a stretch to say a good hard look in the mirror might do some good. 

« Last Edit: July 03, 2005, 08:50:20 PM by expat_in_scotland »


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2005, 08:39:50 PM »
I could give you example after example of our greatest who had that characteristic. Buckminster Fuller and Tom Wolfe. Madonna. J.K. Rowlings. Whoopie Goldberg. Steve Jobs. Often these are the folks who make good entrepreneurs or self-employed...

...Or great artists! ;D  As I stood in the kitchen this evening washing the dishes (and living my life of quiet desperation ;)) -- thinking about the different opinions & postings on this thread, Vincent Van Gogh came immediately to mind.  What luck for the world that (to quote an online biography I found about him)  "Early in life he displayed a moody, restless temperament that was to thwart his every pursuit.  By the age of 27 he had been in turn a salesman in an art gallery, a French tutor, a theological student, and an evangelist among the miners at Wasmes in Belgium."
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in...

- from Anthem, by Leonard Cohen (b 1934)


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2005, 08:57:32 PM »
As far as the temp office job, I was quite happy there. What was strange was about a week or
two ago I started feeling very unhappy. I had liked it because, frankly, it was incredibly easy and
low-pressure, and as far as having work to do, they would apologize that there was nothing to
do (it was a very small office) and I'd shrug and smile and go back to reading the internet. Bad
idea, I guess- I know jobs aren't mini-benefits offices and maybe I was feeling a bit too comfortable.
I had worried that I'd be fired because there was nothing to do, and at first I'd ask them for work.
Eventually I stopped, and settled into reading Exquisite Corpse online. And then I was sacked!

I think I have my 2p to put in here. As a former employee of a large company, we also used to hire temps on a regular basis. If you look at it from an employer's perspective ... it's somewhat clear that if they see a temp is browsing the internet and getting paid for it, it's an unnecessary expense they want to get rid off. Then, of course, there's the unspoken office politics, a temp has to be somewhat aware that they're not permanent employees. With you saying that you were feeling too comfortable, I can literally picture some frustrated employees getting totally pissed off ("... how dare she!!").

I worked in 3 different countries (Germany, UK, USA) and I found the work situation in the UK the worst, it was like most of the activity was going on BEHIND the scenes but people hardly would tell you in the face what you did wrong or let alone give constructive criticism. What it gave me was that after 6 years of permanent self-scrutinization and increasing paranoia about what could be wrong with ME, it eventually dawned on me that it was the job/people. So I'm definitely hearing you! ok, I also want to point out that I've only had one employment in the UK (which lasted 7 years) and I hate throwing around with generalizations. On the other hand, I spent most of last year in therapy, overcoming the damage done from that employment and met there many other folks dealing with the same probs ... go figure ...
"Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not after you." — Kurt Cobain


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2005, 09:44:20 PM »
Ah, a discussion! If anyone is still reading, I'll explain: the ESL jobs were most assuredly
without a contract, and as I have five years of teaching behind me, it was very fishy. But as
the same thing happened twice, without warning, it was very disheartening, and I'm not too
eager to try teaching English here.

As far as the temp office job, I was quite happy there. What was strange was about a week or
two ago I started feeling very unhappy. I had liked it because, frankly, it was incredibly easy and
low-pressure, and as far as having work to do, they would apologize that there was nothing to
do (it was a very small office) and I'd shrug and smile and go back to reading the internet. Bad
idea, I guess- I know jobs aren't mini-benefits offices and maybe I was feeling a bit too comfortable.
I had worried that I'd be fired because there was nothing to do, and at first I'd ask them for work.
Eventually I stopped, and settled into reading Exquisite Corpse online. And then I was sacked!

Hi hon,

I'm sorry you've had such bad luck with jobs but it sounds to me like you've not had any permenant job with a contract and technically, they can fire you without warning.

As far as temp job goes, you technically don't work for the company, you work for the agency and if the company, for whatever reason, doesn't need you anymore than you need to go back to the agency for another job. Plus, I recommend you ask your agency why the company let you go so you know if it was something you had done.

I've had several jobs since living in the UK. I worked for a temp agency and with them I must have had about 5 jobs in 2 years and I was let go because it wasn't a good job I enjoyed or it was only a short term temp or they simply didn't have enough work for me.

If you're working for a company that doesn't have work then you need to go out and find it. If you can't find it then you should probably look for another job as that means they can't keep you long if they don't have work (especially if you're a temp).

Look for a job that offers a contract. By law they must give you notice and vice versa.

Good luck.
There are two things in life for which we are never truly prepared:  twins.


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2005, 11:06:05 PM »
If you are temping in an office and you have internet access you can consider yourself pretty lucky. At my work (check: the place I worked before I went on maternity leave), temps are not given internet access unless they actually need it to do their job because guess what?  they are not being paid a higher hourly rate than permanent staff to read their personal emails or play on UK Yankee etc (!).   If you are a temp, you do have to at least be seen to be working hard all the time to justify the expense.  The last time I temped was about 5 years ago in an HR department.  When I ran out of stuff to do I'd ask if there was anything else anyone needed doing. If not, I used to play with all the spreadsheets, colour coding them and stuff like that. I looked busy and everyone was happy and they liked  the colour coding because it made it easier to find things. They liked it so much they kept me on even when the person I was hired to replace whilst on holiday came back. Pretty boring stuff yes but it kept a roof over my head and I'm neither brain dead nor uncreative.  Surely a creative person can think of ways to occupy their time that don't include reading magazines or looking at inapproriate websites? If not how on earth do they come up with ideas for their creations? (this isn't aimed at anybody specific, just musing).



Re: work attitudes
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2005, 11:22:35 PM »
When I ran out of stuff to do I'd ask if there was anything else anyone needed doing. If not, I used to play with all the spreadsheets, colour coding them and stuff like that.

I did that at a temp gig, too!  I also went through every single MS Word file in their hard drive and asked if I could archive all the stuff over 3 years old.  And I renamed all the ones with non-sensical names former employees had given them and put footers on all of them so folks could track them and asked the sup if she'd like the folders rejigged and if so, how. 

I also went through hand-written correspondence and the like that wasn't recorded on the hard drive and scanned those in (this was in a law firm).  Cleaned up a load of files - putting them back in date order.  Hell, I even made up mock presentations, budgets, graphs and charts and databases to improve my MS PowerPoint, Excel and Access when I ran out of stuff to do and they didn't have any more work to do. 



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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2005, 11:43:00 PM »
No need to be sorry that you struck a nerve. Nothing I love better than a good debate. Funny you should say, though, that anyone who can't just suck it up when money is needed is considered unreliable and unemployable, because they sure are in good company. I could give you example after example of our greatest who had that characteristic. Buckminster Fuller and Tom Wolfe. Madonna. J.K. Rowlings. Whoopie Goldberg. Steve Jobs. Often these are the folks who make good entrepreneurs or self-employed, which is just what the original writer is proposing to be, and me too for that matter. I'll work temp to gather in a few quid, but I'll only work short term assignments, because I'm really not open to long terming the type of jobs that temp agencies have.

But you are not a successful entrepreneur, nor a successful artist, author etc and until you are I don't see why it's so great a leap to consider someone who is unable to stay employed should be considered unreliable or unemployable if they are unable to concede that it just might be something to do with their own attitude. If there is nothing missing in your skillset, you are capable of the job and can put your best foot forward- you will remain in a job (unless they literally have no more work and let you go, but this is different to being fired). I am sure all of the above had to do things they didn't want/like in order to progress or just to pay the bills.

Quote from: DJCNYC
Second point. Who said she was whinging (me, I'll whine if anything, whing is one word I won't adopt)? Could be a person just finds it hard to put on a false face. Some folks are just easy to read and kind of like themselves that way. My experience temping is that often the jobs were things that required a lot of waiting around, like answering phones when they weren't ringing (wander off to ask for more to do and you aren't doing the job you werre hired for), printing out vast numbers of letters and envelopes to later be stuffed, Xeroxing and Xeroxing and Xeroxing (again, wander off and you're not doing the job). I'll grant you that there's usually something else you can do with a permanent job, but that's not always welcome either. Especially when you happen to be innovative and think up your own more efficient way of doing something. Also, sometimes trying to change yourself and things around so that what doesn't fit will fit is just putting off the right solution to the problem. I was good at science, got my grant funded on the first go round, which almost never happens, but it wasn't good for me.

Putting on a "false face" in my view can also mean being a professional and just getting on with it. Every profession in the world has to do this and it has nothing to do with being easy to read, I think it takes a great deal of strength to get on with ones job day in day out whilst maintaining that professionalism.

Quote from: DJCNYC
3rd point. Why go for the job in the first place if it's not a good fit? Same reason they chose you for it. They thought it might be a decent fit and so did you. Both employers and employees make that mistake all the time because neither have working crystal balls, employers need workers now and don't always have the ideal candidates to choose from and employees need money and don't always have the ideal candidate jobs available. Why blame anybody? Both ways? I didn't understand that. What are the two ways you're talking about?

You are the one talking about responding to boredom in a job by not wanting to ask for extra tasks in case you dont like what you are given and not having a life beyond 2 hours to get home etc etc, my point was, if this is the case, why apply for the jobs in the first place, if you are clear you are not going to be suited to them.  On the one hand you say you only take short term jobs you are suited too on the other you say they are boring jobs you can't really stick too- that is what I mean about having it two ways, you either want a job or you don't, if you get one, change it, improve it, whatever you need to do. I have spent time where I have been bored, but I was always taught to take the initiative and I can always find something valuable to do for someone, whether it be extra filing or creating new systems, there is always something.

Quote from: DJCNYCI
know you're trying to be practical. I think that being practical leads an awful lot of people to lives of quiet desperation, and that being impractical often leads to interesting lives. How did you manage to make the leap across the pond at all without suspending practicality for a moment or two?.

DJC
Quote

I find it essential to be practical in order to maintain employment and keep my bills paid. No question I can afford to be fired from jobs for the employment history, my own well being and my bank balance and future plans.  It also means I am in equal partnership with my husband, we are a team and in order to keep team dawn viable, we both remain employable, if that means Burger King next week, so be it.  I do not consider myself above any work, there are jobs I prefer not to do, but I am not too artistic, bored or creative to remain in them when bills need to be met.

And I don't need to suspend that practicality to make the leap across the pond- I was born here! I have lived and worked in both countries and whilst I have little experience of the current U.S job market, I do remember being praised for my work ethic over there and if I was posting similar experiences as in this thread, I cannot imagine any employer (American or otherwise) would take me seriously, which is the point I was trying to make.

« Last Edit: July 03, 2005, 11:48:05 PM by New-Dawn »
Born to shop..............forced to work


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2005, 11:44:33 PM »
I did that at a temp gig, too!  I also went through every single MS Word file in their hard drive and asked if I could archive all the stuff over 3 years old.  And I renamed all the ones with non-sensical names former employees had given them and put footers on all of them so folks could track them and asked the sup if she'd like the folders rejigged and if so, how. 

I also went through hand-written correspondence and the like that wasn't recorded on the hard drive and scanned those in (this was in a law firm).  Cleaned up a load of files - putting them back in date order.  Hell, I even made up mock presentations, budgets, graphs and charts and databases to improve my MS PowerPoint, Excel and Access when I ran out of stuff to do and they didn't have any more work to do. 


Me too! Why, oh WHY do people file electronic correspondence as "Letter to......."  >:(  It drives me crazy
Born to shop..............forced to work


Re: work attitudes
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2005, 11:46:11 PM »
Me too! Why, oh WHY do people file electronic correspondence as "Letter to......."  >:(  It drives me crazy

Or, worse, when they make up their own abbrieviations - 'Letr_2_' 'Lettr_2_X_No_2'  Arrgggh!  Or dates with no clue as to what the hell the file contains. 


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2005, 11:49:26 PM »
Or, worse, when they make up their own abbrieviations - 'Letr_2_' 'Lettr_2_X_No_2'  Arrgggh!  Or dates with no clue as to what the hell the file contains. 

In my job we have a legal obligation to file in a certain way and do you think people can do it- no chance and guess what (and this really is mean't as a joke) it's usually temps who can't get the hang of it ;)
Born to shop..............forced to work


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2005, 11:51:35 PM »
I think I have my 2p to put in here. As a former employee of a large company, we also used to hire temps on a regular basis. If you look at it from an employer's perspective ... it's somewhat clear that if they see a temp is browsing the internet and getting paid for it, it's an unnecessary expense they want to get rid off. Then, of course, there's the unspoken office politics, a temp has to be somewhat aware that they're not permanent employees. With you saying that you were feeling too comfortable, I can literally picture some frustrated employees getting totally pissed off ("... how dare she!!").


I totally agree with this.
Born to shop..............forced to work


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Re: work attitudes
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2005, 11:54:47 PM »
In my job we have a legal obligation to file in a certain way and do you think people can do it- no chance and guess what (and this really is mean't as a joke) it's usually temps who can't get the hang of it ;)

Many years ago I had to teach a temp the alphabet so that she could do the alphabetical filing. I'm not kidding.  In the end I wrote it out on a piece of paper for her which she kept on her desk to refer to.  ::)


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