work attitudes

Many years ago I had to teach a temp the alphabet so that she could do the alphabetical filing. I'm not kidding.  In the end I wrote it out on a piece of paper for her which she kept on her desk to refer to. 

OMG - that *is* priceless    I must admit, I put everything in writing for temps now, I even set up a specific procedures workbook for them so they don't have to ask me the same question every 5 mins.  I also ask the agency for graduates that have worked BEFORE in a large organisation and am frequently unimpressed with just how stupid (some) graduates can be.

I don't have a degree, it is a huge regret of mine and something I intend to change, but some of these people make me feel much better about not having one!

just b/c someone has recently graduate and maybe hasn't worked in an office ever or in a long time, doesn't make them stupid. They may be able to analyze and think on a higher level, but aren't as good at the common sense bit.

I am only saying this b/c I know I have heard too many bad things about recent grads and feel sometimes they have a bad rep b/c they need to be shown the ropes of full time work - they don't teach that in college. Often office politics and unwritten rules are what takes a while to really learn plus most systems are unique to each workplace.

I don't know about the first two, but the third may have to do with legalities. I temped for a year once in Florida and there was one compant that continually hired temps and fired them just before the law said that if they kept them any longer they had to offer them a permanent position.

I lost 2 jobs for that very reason.  One was at a place that wanted to hire me, but their corporate office wouldn't approve the expenditure.  The other was at a place where the boss changed and the new one insisted that only a degreed person could perform the job that I'd been doing fine at for a week short of a year.  Losing the first one was sad, because I really loved the place.  Losing the second one was a relief because, 3 days later, I was interviewed for the one I've got now.  I really enjoy my current job and it's permanent. 

just b/c someone has recently graduate and maybe hasn't worked in an office ever or in a long time, doesn't make them stupid. They may be able to analyze and think on a higher level, but aren't as good at the common sense bit.

I am only saying this b/c I know I have heard too many bad things about recent grads and feel sometimes they have a bad rep b/c they need to be shown the ropes of full time work - they don't teach that in college. Often office politics and unwritten rules are what takes a while to really learn plus most systems are unique to each workplace.

I'll say.   I once had to train someone, a new graduate in her first job. When I explained to her she would be undergoing a few days training at the end of which there would be a test, she replied "I don't think I have to do that because I have a DEGREE."   After I picked myself up off the floor and got her trained she turned out to be very good at the job.

Doesn't anyone work in the their uni holidays any more??

just b/c someone has recently graduate and maybe hasn't worked in an office ever or in a long time, doesn't make them stupid. They may be able to analyze and think on a higher level, but aren't as good at the common sense bit.

I am only saying this b/c I know I have heard too many bad things about recent grads and feel sometimes they have a bad rep b/c they need to be shown the ropes of full time work - they don't teach that in college. Often office politics and unwritten rules are what takes a while to really learn plus most systems are unique to each workplace.

I didn't say that graduates are all stupid if they haven't worked in an office yet, I said I am frequently unimpressed with how stupid SOME graduates can be with very simple instructions that have little to do with office politics or unwritten rules.

When someone arrives and they say they are computer literate and they have spent the last 5 years studying for their degrees, one expects that they can follow simple instructions and frequently they can't, hence written instructions (a lot of them seem to do better with written as opposed to verbal instructions for example).  It has little to do with being stupid, or needing the ropes shown to them, mostly it is a lack of mollycoddling they cannot handle in my experience, they need x,y & z of everything.

I have been a temp and I have also worked in a temp agency (for my sins), so I make a huge effort to induct them appropriately, one thing I cannot stand is seeing someone standing around feeling lost or unsure, but when you have done all of this and still they cannot follow, they're stupid!

I lost 2 jobs for that very reason.  One was at a place that wanted to hire me, but their corporate office wouldn't approve the expenditure.  The other was at a place where the boss changed and the new one insisted that only a degreed person could perform the job that I'd been doing fine at for a week short of a year.  Losing the first one was sad, because I really loved the place.  Losing the second one was a relief because, 3 days later, I was interviewed for the one I've got now.  I really enjoy my current job and it's permanent. 

Now, that's really unfair! Was the second job in the U.S? I have heard of that happening a lot and in terms of the financial cost of recruitment, retention and re-training the next employee, it doesn't make any sense to me

  just b/c someone has recently graduate and maybe hasn't worked in an office ever or in a long time, doesn't make them stupid. They may be able to analyze and think on a higher level, but aren't as good at the common sense bit.

I am only saying this b/c I know I have heard too many bad things about recent grads and feel sometimes they have a bad rep b/c they need to be shown the ropes of full time work - they don't teach that in college. Often office politics and unwritten rules are what takes a while to really learn plus most systems are unique to each workplace.

Totally agree with this!  My experiences temping here in the UK (thus far) have been horrible largely because of this!  I worked for two different "one-man" offices, substituting for the ONE secretary/PA who was on holiday, each of whom provided very limited & incomplete instructions.  The guy in each office was so "above it all" -- he couldn't be bothered to explain, much less understand himself, how things like filing, etc worked in that office.  They just expected me to psychically know.  What they did manage to explain was done in such a rapid & thick Yorkshire accent -- it was still hard to decipher exactly what "the directions" actually were.  (Told my husband I ought to start a business teaching diction to the English...   All those dropped vowels & consonants!)  I am not a recent grad either...I have 20 years' (US) office experience, a university degree, had a US investment license, etc. -- but I find that no matter where you go that, yes, things do tend to be specific to the office (politics, systems, etc) and also invariably that while these things often seem painfully obvious to those already working there who "speak the lingo" of that office -- it's not so straightforward for a newcomer, and particularly a newcomer from a different country as well.

Totally agree with this!  My experiences temping here in the UK (thus far) have been horrible largely because of this!  I worked for two different "one-man" offices, substituting for the ONE secretary/PA who was on holiday, each of whom provided very limited & incomplete instructions.  The guy in each office was so "above it all" -- he couldn't be bothered to explain, much less understand himself, how things like filing, etc worked in that office.  They just expected me to psychically know.  What they did manage to explain was done in such a rapid & thick Yorkshire accent -- it was still hard to decipher exactly what "the directions" actually were.  (Told my husband I ought to start a business teaching diction to the English...   All those dropped vowels & consonants!)  I am not a recent grad either...I have 20 years' (US) office experience, a university degree, had a US investment license, etc. -- but I find that no matter where you go that, yes, things do tend to be specific to the office (politics, systems, etc) and also invariably that while these things often seem painfully obvious to those already working there who "speak the lingo" of that office -- it's not so straightforward for a newcomer, and particularly a newcomer from a different country as well.

Interesting - are you guys having all these problems only in the U.K or did you experience it in the U.S as well?

Yes of course things are different from one workplace to another but I don't think New Dawn meant that sort of thing. Some things go without saying. I've seen some temps reading books at their desk, or making long personal phone calls and one guy just put his head down on his desk and went to sleep in the middle of the working day.   I don't mean to sound like I'm temp-bashing, others have been fantastic but honestly, isn't it obvious that reading your book is something for your own time, not work time? Ditto sleeping.

Ditto sleeping. 

Oh, come on, Britwife -- you mean I shouldn't sleep at work!?!?!!

New-Dawn -- I've found that every job has its learning curve, but I never had to struggle in the US with the most basic things like understanding what someone has just said.  And maybe I was just lucky -- but US employers that I've had didn't expect me to know everything about working there on my first day, there was either some kind of induction period/training or at least someone who was able to provide clear & comprehensive direction/explanation if there was something I didn't understand.  I often feel here like (because I'm an outsider) there's a whole "behind the scenes" dynamic (call it subtlety? discretion?) that I don't yet understand -- whereas (in my experience) US employers may tend to be a bit more direct & straightforward.  Having said that -- again, this has been my experience & someone else might see it completely differently plus I don't feel entirely comfortable making such broad generalizations either.

Yes of course things are different from one workplace to another but I don't think New Dawn meant that sort of thing. Some things go without saying. I've seen some temps reading books at their desk, or making long personal phone calls and one guy just put his head down on his desk and went to sleep in the middle of the working day.   I don't mean to sound like I'm temp-bashing, others have been fantastic but honestly, isn't it obvious that reading your book is something for your own time, not work time? Ditto sleeping.

No, I certainly didn't mean that and wasn't aware I was coming across that way, thanks BW.

I was trying to point out that reading magazines, not knowing how to follow instructions, not having the gumption to ask for assistance or further work, might be something to do with not being kept on- I haven't got the time, energy or budget for that matter to waste on such people.

We will never know why some of you haven't been kept on and I have no doubt that there are really bad managers around that have not given you all that you need and I also know that temp agencies are there to make money, not find you the job you'll be the happiest in- but as you are all very well educated, take the initiative kind of women, I find it hard to believe it's *always* the employer/office politics/U.K/language difference at fault for being less than transparent and I don't see that it's too harsh to look inwards a little and think, ah, maybe I am just not getting something right here, is there anything I could change.

Oh, come on, Britwife -- you mean I shouldn't sleep at work!?!?!!

New-Dawn -- I've found that every job has its learning curve, but I never had to struggle in the US with the most basic things like understanding what someone has just said.  And maybe I was just lucky -- but US employers that I've had didn't expect me to know everything about working there on my first day, there was either some kind of induction period/training or at least someone who was able to provide clear & comprehensive direction/explanation if there was something I didn't understand.  I often feel here like (because I'm an outsider) there's a whole "behind the scenes" dynamic (call it subtlety? discretion?) that I don't yet understand -- whereas (in my experience) US employers may tend to be a bit more direct & straightforward.  Having said that -- again, this has been my experience & someone else might see it completely differently plus I don't feel entirely comfortable making such broad generalizations either.

I personally have never known any employer in either country expect new people to know everything on their first day- but I do see the expectation to jump in, ask questions, take the iniative and participate where someone new can, despite all the hidden agendas keeping new hires from shining!

This is an eye-opener for me! I was under the impression that generally speaking, we were pretty liberal over here and a lot flies that shouldn't. Certainly I have seen the most unsuitable people kept on and given more time and more training and more chances because employers here seem to be so scared of upsetting people or risking any legal action against them due to the many rights we now have as employees.

I am pleased personally, because I will probably find that straightforward and direct approach in the US a lot easier than I find some people here, I prefer transparency where possible and I can  only hope they can understand my southern counties English accent and if they can't, I'll employ an American to teach me how to speak properly

Interesting - are you guys having all these problems only in the U.K or did you experience it in the U.S as well?

I experienced it in the US as well, and I temped a lot of times in between jobs, at uni, etc.  I was never given any training or induction in the US, even when I filled in for a senior medical secretary on disability leave!  The temp agency must have just thought, 'Senior legal secretary, senior medical secretary, all the same thing . . . ' Luckily I'd taken some medical terminology courses and science courses and had a good understanding of what confidentiality entailed and filing systems or I'd have been totally lost.  She also used a Mac and I'd never used on in my life.  

Honestly, the language differences and 'dynamics' haven't really been all that different, IME, excepting that for me, British employers have been far more laid-back.

I experienced it in the US as well, and I temped a lot of times in between jobs, at uni, etc.  I was never given any training or induction in the US, even when I filled in for a senior medical secretary on disability leave!  The temp agency must have just thought, 'Senior legal secretary, senior medical secretary, all the same thing . . . ' Luckily I'd taken some medical terminology courses and science courses and had a good understanding of what confidentiality entailed and filing systems or I'd have been totally lost.  She also used a Mac and I'd never used on in my life.  

Honestly, the language differences and 'dynamics' haven't really been all that different, IME, excepting that for me, British employers have been far more laid-back.

My husband feels the same- he is the USC and he has now been here for 7 years and he says it never ceases to amaze him what people get away with here, from sloppy work  to bad attitudes,  and he feels he has become pretty "soft" here and will probably get a bit of a shock to the system when we go back over there!

Actually, New-Dawn, I am a successful entrepreneur, artist, and author. For years I sold my work at craft fairs and won prizes. At 50, I went back to school, a one-year program in surface Design/Textile Design that began in NYC, where almost all the jobs in that area are in the US, 10 days before 911, so you can guess the job market we came out to. I went freelance and survived a year and a half on that, but I kept applying for jobs mostly because benefits, particularly healthcare, cost so much for independents in the US, and I got one. So I have three years of earning my income entirely with my art, actually 8, though the other years were just barely getting by. As for the author bit, I have 20 scientific papers to my credit, two craft articles, and assorted poems, interviews and book reviews. I've also copyedited or proofread some 30 books. And actually, everybody I've known who became successful in the arts had to take a time when that was all they did because that's the only way you get good enough to be a professional.

As for professionalism and the false face, in the arts and sciences, and as an editor or proofreader for that matter, you are hired for and expected to express your opinions in no uncertain terms and to be willing and able to defend them. which is part of why these things have been the best fit for me.

As for your third point, I didn't say I didn't ask for more work because I might not like what they offered, though I can see that you might interpret what I said that way. I meant that if you don't really want what working extra hard as a temp might bring you, why do it. If you don't want to be asked to stay, for instance. I said I only take short term temps, because I don't want to stay. The only way I can endure the kinds of jobs temping involves is by constantly switching so there's something different all the time. If I'm temping, unless it's in the arts, I'm not doing work that suits me. I'm simply bringing in some cash to be applied to doing what suits me, and it's what I'd doing after "work" that is my priority, that is really my "work" whether I'm getting paid for it or not.

Ah. You were born here. And you didn't suspend practicality one single little bit to make the leap across the pond to work there? Never have? That's too bad. As for equal partnership, money doesn't have much of anything to do with that, as any number of stay-at-home mothers will tell you.