work attitudes

When I started at my current job, I had been a legal secretary - mostly at partner level - for well over 15 years.  But I had never been a legal secretary at this particular firm - British or not.  So I had to learn what it was like to work here.  Yes, I brought some knowledge with me - mostly enough to know when I should be asking questions!  I work for a man who seems to have gone through secretaries like most men go through socks.  And he eats temps alive...   Funny enough, I started here as a temp.  And since I seemed to survive just fine working with him, I was asked (begged, more like) to stay.  So I did.  And about a year into the job, my boss told me he had finally stopped waiting for me to say "But this is how we do it in the States..." because I just hadn't.  I told him that when I could some up with something that would be an improvement and not merely a change, I'd let him know.

The attitude you give off has a lot to do with the attitude you get back.  If you act like you think a job is *beneath* you in any way, trust me, there are plenty of people out there who would be grateful to have that job.  And the employer would rather have one of them any day.  If you don't act like a team player - getting stuck in and seeing if you can be of help in a way that might be outside your actual "job description" - then you don't get treated as a member of the team.

I guess I'm lucky in that I've never had any problem working a job that put money in the bank.  I worked as a Court Reporter for 4 years - and for one of those years I also worked nights at 7-Eleven for the health care benefits.  Just because I spent all day in a "proper profession" didn't mean that I was too proud to clean out a Slurpee machine or scrape a hot dog grill to get what I needed for my family.

I'm lucky I was able to get a job here in my profession relatively easy and that I fit in and it fit me.  But if it had come to it, I wouldn't have had a problem wearing a Co-Op smock and ringing up other people's groceries...or frying chips at the chippie down the street.  The only jobs I wouldn't do are ones I know I'm no good at - because that just isn't fair to the employer or the customers/clients. 

As for being let go from temping jobs - if there's nothing for you to do, why should they continue paying you to be there?  A temp is just that - temporary; there to help a business catch up or make up for another employee's absence or whatever.  But if the temp is sitting around with nothing to do, then they obviously aren't needed.  I've had more than a few temp assignments that were originally for a week or two but ended a few days in.  It happens.

Just my opinions/experiences.

Actually, New-Dawn, I am a successful entrepreneur, artist, and author.

As you are so successful, don't need to keep a job and see nothing wrong in not being able to put your best foot forward and have no concern about contributing to family finances, I fail to see any value in your contribution to the original posters request for feedback.

  This is an eye-opener for me! I was under the impression that generally speaking, we were pretty liberal over here and a lot flies that shouldn't. Certainly I have seen the most unsuitable people kept on and given more time and more training and more chances because employers here seem to be so scared of upsetting people or risking any legal action against them due to the many rights we now have as employees. 

Well now that's one thing you won't have very much of in the States -- employee rights.  More often than not there, employment issues/disputes tend to go in favor of the employer -- and the "probationary period" (a time when you can be fired anytime for nearly any reason) is pretty much all the time (at least among private employers--vs public sector).  (I don't mean they call it that -- just how it works out, particularly in the so-called "right to work" states, where worker unions are discouraged.)

But I'd say it's a real mixed bag among US employers on how they wield the power that they have.  For instance, I had a friend who was fired from his public sector job during his true 6-month "probationary period" on a premise so thinly justified that even the EEOC investigator (it went into an EEOC mediation proceeding which is rare) was unable to reach a definitive ruling in favor of either party -- employer/employee.  That should have given my friend reason enough to continue in federal court, but since his position had been lowly enough (not well paid) -- the attorney was not willing to continue as his potential contingency fee (if the case won) would have been unrewarding (for the attorney).  Therefore, in the end, because of the economics involved -- the employer 'won' despite being arguably in the wrong.  And my friend got absolutely nothing.

On the other hand, at my last job with a large private corporation, I worked with a fellow who was kept on for several years, he even got a minor promotion (via the proverbial, time-honored method known as brown-nosing), yet he *openly* did as little work as he possibly could.  His blatant shirking was no secret to anyone, not to his co-workers, not to his subordinates, not even to the company management -- strangely, it was like one of the company's inside jokes.  His days were largely spent chit-chatting with various friends & running his sports photography business on the side from his desk.  To this day, I still have no idea how he was allowed to continue there as long as he did (before *finally* being asked to resign after many years).

I am pleased personally, because I will probably find that straightforward and direct approach in the US a lot easier than I find some people here, I prefer transparency where possible and I can  only hope they can understand my southern counties English accent and if they can't, I'll employ an American to teach me how to speak properly  

I'm sure you'll be fine, but again -- I think a lot of it just depends (here or there) on the individual employer.  When/where are you going?

New-Dawn,

I see no reason for all the antagonism. I'm perfectly willing to let you deal with the world of work your way and me mine. Different strokes for different folks. Why is that a problem?

I was successful in the US and am enough of a New Yorker to think I will be here in time. I just have a different deffinition of my "best face" forward than you do. Again, it wouuld be a dreary old world if we were all the same. As I demonstrated in discussing what is expected of scientists, design folks, and editors, different jobs have different requirements of their employees regarding "best faces".

As for having no concern with not being able to contribute to family finances, my willingness to work short term temp jobs while putting a priority on developing areas where, with my temperment and talents, I am more likely to be successful, is simply a different strategy than yours.

As for contributing to helping the original poster sort things out, I simply present another alternative way of looking at things and acting on them. Why would you want to deny that poster a different viewpoint?

Ah. You were born here. And you didn't suspend practicality one single little bit to make the leap across the pond to work there? Never have? That's too bad. As for equal partnership, money doesn't have much of anything to do with that, as any number of stay-at-home mothers will tell you.

Well I wasn't born here.  And I've lived all over the world.  And no, I didn't 'suspend practicality' - whatever that means - to do it, either.  Guess it may be b/c I always thought that eating and shelter were good things and enough of a priority that finding a means - any means - of obtaining them was tantamount to my life in whatever place I've been.

I just don't understand how or why this is so complicated to some folks.  Life is really as simple as you make it.  There's also no major language barrier here.  Trust me, it's even more challenging when you have a language barrier, not to mention a major cultural one - such as living in a non-Judeo/Christian based country. 

I don't see how being a positive, polite, cheerful person means someone is 'selling up' or not being themselves.  My feeling has always been that if I approach everything with an open mind, positively, thinking, 'Hey, maybe there's something to be learned here', life becomes a far more rewarding and enriching experience.  That goes for all the jobs I've held, and it's always worked out for the better employment-wise.

I worked in 7/11, too, peedal, and I have to say it was one of the best jobs I did.  Corner of 13th and Pearl St. in Denver's 'Cap Hill' - the people really made the job.  Shame how awful it might have been if I've had the attitude that it was someone compromising my artisitic and lifestyle goals.  In fact, it gave me some new ones to pursue...

New-Dawn,

I see no reason for all the antagonism. I'm perfectly willing to let you deal with the world of work your way and me mine. Different strokes for different folks. Why is that a problem?

I was successful in the US and am enough of a New Yorker to think I will be here in time. I just have a different deffinition of my "best face" forward than you do. Again, it wouuld be a dreary old world if we were all the same. As I demonstrated in discussing what is expected of scientists, design folks, and editors, different jobs have different requirements of their employees regarding "best faces".

As for having no concern with not being able to contribute to family finances, my willingness to work short term temp jobs while putting a priority on developing areas where, with my temperment and talents, I am more likely to be successful, is simply a different strategy than yours.

As for contributing to helping the original poster sort things out, I simply present another alternative way of looking at things and acting on them. Why would you want to deny that poster a different viewpoint?

There is no real antagonism here, it has just felt that your posts have been more about deconstructing other people's thoughts and posts somewhat argumentatively than addressing the comments put forward by the O.P and I don't see the value in that. I do see the value in different experiences and opinions otherwise I wouldn't be here.

For example Carolyn-B has explained her own views which are different to mine and similar to yours, but she has not done it in such a way it feels like she is purely trying to argue with me and bait me with phrases about suspending practicality, as if being practical is some sort of personality defect, when I know full well the way a HR dept will view my employment record as a practical reliable employee against someone with an admittedly spotty work history.

At the heart of this I want people to be successful here - I have spent the years steering my husband through the british workplace culture (who frankly has had a bad attitude at times towards the work and has done the whole blame the Brits, blame the country, blame everyone but himself) and I saw an opportunity here to say hang on, look at yourself before blaming everyone/thing else- not that the OP was, but something in her posts hinted towards the possibility that she had made it known (whether directly/indirectly) that she was above/too artistic for such work and as a Brit who has limited experience in the U.S, but a lot here with recruitment and hiring temps I wanted to point out what attitudes would fly here and what wouldn't.

I worked in 7/11, too, peedal, and I have to say it was one of the best jobs I did. Corner of 13th and Pearl St. in Denver's 'Cap Hill' - the people really made the job. Shame how awful it might have been if I've had the attitude that it was someone compromising my artisitic and lifestyle goals. In fact, it gave me some new ones to pursue...

I loved working at 7-Eleven.  I wish they would bring them back over here - I'd sign up again in a hearbeat!

Well now that's one thing you won't have very much of in the States -- employee rights.  More often than not there, employment issues/disputes tend to go in favor of the employer -- and the "probationary period" (a time when you can be fired anytime for nearly any reason) is pretty much all the time (at least among private employers--vs public sector).  (I don't mean they call it that -- just how it works out, particularly in the so-called "right to work" states, where worker unions are discouraged.)

But I'd say it's a real mixed bag among US employers on how they wield the power that they have.  For instance, I had a friend who was fired from his public sector job during his true 6-month "probationary period" on a premise so thinly justified that even the EEOC investigator (it went into an EEOC mediation proceeding which is rare) was unable to reach a definitive ruling in favor of either party -- employer/employee.  That should have given my friend reason enough to continue in federal court, but since his position had been lowly enough (not well paid) -- the attorney was not willing to continue as his potential contingency fee (if the case won) would have been unrewarding (for the attorney).  Therefore, in the end, because of the economics involved -- the employer 'won' despite being arguably in the wrong.  And my friend got absolutely nothing.

On the other hand, at my last job with a large private corporation, I worked with a fellow who was kept on for several years, he even got a minor promotion (via the proverbial, time-honored method known as brown-nosing), yet he *openly* did as little work as he possibly could.  His blatant shirking was no secret to anyone, not to his co-workers, not to his subordinates, not even to the company management -- strangely, it was like one of the company's inside jokes.  His days were largely spent chit-chatting with various friends & running his sports photography business on the side from his desk.  To this day, I still have no idea how he was allowed to continue there as long as he did (before *finally* being asked to resign after many years).

I'm sure you'll be fine, but again -- I think a lot of it just depends (here or there) on the individual employer.  When/where are you going?

That's interesting because I have experienced the same thing but the opposite way around- the best protection has been offered in the public sector to colleagues that behave like your brown-nosing fellow, seems you can get away with as little work as possible and they really dislike terminating at probationary stage and I have seen people that show all signs of being reliable and earning their keep in the private sector be let go due to those pesky unforeseen business decisions.

Like you said I think it depends a lot on the individual employer wherever you are and I admit it's not something I am looking forward to back in the U.S (going back to CT end of the summer), I feel the degree thing will bite me in the bum, but I do hope a little of who you know not what you know might help- in the meantime if it's 7/11 for a while, then so be it, I am aware that I will have to get a job that will provide decent-ish benefits for us as I will only be going with the luxury of  12 mths expat medical insurance.  I am confident of my attitude and application, just less confidence about education etc.

Pre-emptive calm down coming...

Can I ask that we keep the discussion on the straight and narrow. If you'd like to veer off, I recommend PMs. That's what they're there for.

Thanks all.   

Pre-emptive calm down coming...

Calm, blue ocean...calm, blue ocean...

Darn it. And I had a whole long post written. I really did think it was on the subject of work attitudes. Guess I'll PM it to the original poster. One sentence: There really is no one "best practice" in a world of individuals at work.

Pre-emptive calm down coming...

Can I ask that we keep the discussion on the straight and narrow. If you'd like to veer off, I recommend PMs. That's what they're there for.

Thanks all.   

Yikes, I have never been a part of a calm down mod post before 

All is calm though, promise

OP here... an amusing discussion, which seems to have veered away from the original.
But interesting. I didn't mean to autobiographize, and don't think I did,  and if I had asked
something that would actually prompt a "look in the mirror" from someone I don't know,
I didn't mean to. But I am now much clearer on why I was fired from the temp job- as for
the teaching thing, well,  we all have our little purgatorial soliliquies, don't we. And when two
middle aged men with glum faces and the pasty pink skin of alcoholics fire me from non-contractual jobs
almost instantly and for identical reasons, it reminds me to work harder on other things, because
that one ain't gonna work out.  Maybe it didn't help that I hadn't taught English for four years-
I was doing other things. The temp job was a stop gap measure, but a gap can go on for years-
thanks to my lousy work, this one didn't.  I was grateful for the job because it was SO EASY, but
maybe they really did want someone who would see it as more of a challenge, and do a more
diligent job as a result. And if I'm lucky enough to get another stop gap temp job before I go
to Europe in August, I will keep your experiences in mind and try much harder.