Patriotism

Hi

Did anyone here have to explain about American patriotism (flags, anthem, pledge of allegiance....), or your pride of being American to their Brit SO?   How did you do explain that - I understand flags aren't so popular in UK and there is no pledge in school, or at ball games etc. Have you ever been home with your SO around 4th July for example and what did they think?

And do you still have a US flag at home (in UK) or ever recite the pledge on days like today with other US friends, or if you are both American? 

Thanks again for ya help 

I haven't said "the pledge" since grade school.  Refused all through high school - even stood silent at my sons' Boy Scout activities in the US.

Today was just another work day as far as I am concerned.  I did get wished a "happy independence" by our receptionist, though, which I thought was sweet of her.

The only reason I remembered the day was the canteen had an "American Style 4^th of July" lunch. Anyone from Maryland? If so, ever hear of chicken with bacon and banana fritter on top? I was . . . um . . . not convinced.  Later on a few coworkers wished me a happy 4^th.

I was reminded of a friend who, when I told her the 4^th wasn't celebrated in the UK asked, "Do they celebrate Christmas?" Heeheehee.

Hi

Did anyone here have to explain about American patriotism (flags, anthem, pledge of allegiance....), or your pride of being American to their Brit SO?   How did you do explain that - I understand flags aren't so popular in UK and there is no pledge in school, or at ball games etc. Have you ever been home with your SO around 4th July for example and what did they think?

And do you still have a US flag at home (in UK) or ever recite the pledge on days like today with other US friends, or if you are both American?  

Thanks again for ya help  

I think British people have a pretty good grip on American patriotism.    We tend to go to or host a barbeque on the Fourth of July and roast a turkey on Thanksgiving but that's about as far as I go.
As for saying the pledge, well when I'm with my friends I tend to like to have a chat, drink, and a laugh.  I don't see it as a time to say the pledge.  I don't mean to be funny but that sounds bizarre to me.  Do you say the pledge when you get together with your friends in America?    And thinking about it, maybe I've been here too long because the whole idea of blindly reciting a pledge to a flag strikes me as brain washing propaganda.  

As for saying the pledge, well when I'm with my friends I tend to like to have a chat, drink, and a laugh.  I don't see it as a time to say the pledge.  I don't mean to be funny but that sounds bizarre to me.  Do you say the pledge when you get together with your friends in America?     And thinking about it, maybe I've been here too long because the whole idea of blindly reciting a pledge to a flag strikes me as brain washing propaganda.   

Yeah, I don't get it. Brain-washing propaganda as well as state-sponsored religion. Not for me, tyvm. I think I last said it in 3rd grade, but I wasn't really sure about it even then!

Hi Mindy, no I don't say the pledge with friends!    What I meant was on 4th July if you do something/pledge in the community for example. Working through something at the moment with bf - he went with me to MI State Capitol a while ago where we sat watching what was going on and everyone stood and pledged (well he didn't!!!)

He's fine with flags, pledges and anthems (like at Capitol/at games) knowing we do things differently but sometimes we discuss it and it can get heated! I guess it's just my patriotism vs his and the brainwashing issue comes up at times     

Anyhoo, it's not something that's really a big issue with us - I still  but would like to be able to explain but don't understand his side of the "argument" as I haven't seen much Brit life yet. So was hoping if anyone could give some insight into UK patriotism and how to explain the US side better to a Brit?!

Thx for all your answers 

Did anyone here have to explain about American patriotism (flags, anthem, pledge of allegiance....), or your pride of being American to their Brit SO? 

Nothing to explain.  My DH is very intelligent, and doesnt require to have patriotism explained to him.  And i am not 'proud' of being an American.

Have you ever been home with your SO around 4th July for example and what did they think?

Think about what? 

And do you still have a US flag at home (in UK) or ever recite the pledge on days like today with other US friends, or if you are both American? 

No flag.  Some well meaning person gave me a stars & stripes tablecloth once, and i had to sell it on eBay because the sight of it made me cringe.   Reciting the pledge?  As others said, not since primary school.

These kinds of things are just not for me. 

I've got a flag -- ok - it's a little one -- but it's still viewed.  I still get misty eyed when I hear the American National Anthem.  When I was young -- my dad would take me to parades -- he taught me to stand and put my hand on my heart when the flag was going by.  A sign of respect for those who fought in the wars -- to keep America FREE!
It bothers me greatly to see the flag burned in other countries -- as a show of anger and hatred towards the US.  I don't always agree with polices of the government -- but I love what it represents.

We had our bbq yesterday -- just hamburgers and hotdogs.  Leftover fireworks from Guy Fawkes day -- the neighbours know to expect it!

I wore my flag pin yesterday and, yes, I did recite the pledge of allegiance to a few of my co-workers (just to be a bit cheeky) and I even sang the national anthem, one of the ladies at work knew the words! She's full of random information.

I don't think there's anything wrong with patriotism and be damned if I was going to hide mine. Plus it was my birthday, so they had to humor me.  They were all good sports about it and I honestly don't think it bothered them one bit.

Did anyone here have to explain about American patriotism (flags, anthem, pledge of allegiance....), or your pride of being American to their Brit SO? 

No, and no.  I think American patriotism is pretty well known the world over already, probably to the point of extreme overkill.  I don't think being an American is any better than being a Brit or any other particular nationality, so I don't make any big hooha (pride) over it.

How did you do explain that - I understand flags aren't so popular in UK and there is no pledge in school, or at ball games etc. Have you ever been home with your SO around 4th July for example and what did they think?

No.  Great Britain has its annual display of patriotism, I guess, each summer on the 'Last Night of the Proms' -- with much waving of the Union Jack & singing Land of Hope and Glory and God Save the queen (except for the now politically incorrect verses about crushing those rebellious Scots...)   I'm sure there are other patriotic times over here -- stuff associated with annual rituals that the queen is involved with.  It's not like America invented the idea of patriotism such that it's a foreign concept in other countries.

And do you still have a US flag at home (in UK) or ever recite the pledge on days like today with other US friends, or if you are both American? 

No flag.  I always preferred the song America the Beautiful (the first verse anyway) to The Star Spangled Banner & wished it could have been the national anthem instead, being a song in a more peaceful theme & speaking of the country's natural beauty.  I refuse to recite the pledge because I think it's patently false -- when I took social work classes, I had a professor that offered an alternate version ending something like 'with liberty and justice for some'...  I found the following interesting & alternative versions on the internet yesterday:

I pledge allegiance to humanity, and to each person for which it stands, multiple nations, sharing peace, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I pledge allegiance to the Earth and to the flora, fauna and human life that it supports, one planet, indivisible, with safe air, water and soil, economic justice, equal rights and peace for all.

I pledge allegiance to humanity, and to each person for which it stands, multiple nations, sharing peace, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I pledge allegiance to the Earth and to the flora, fauna and human life that it supports, one planet, indivisible, with safe air, water and soil, economic justice, equal rights and peace for all.

I like that!

I looked up some info about the pledge just now, and I found it really interesting that its original purpose was not at all the same as the way it's used today:

Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

Francis Bellamy in his sermons and lectures and Edward Bellamy in his novels and articles described in detail how the middle class could create a planned economy with political, social and economic equality for all. The government would run a peace time economy similar to our present military industrial complex.

The Pledge was published in the September 8th issue of The Youth's Companion, the leading family magazine and the Reader's Digest of its day. Its owner and editor, Daniel Ford, had hired Francis in 1891 as his assistant when Francis was pressured into leaving his baptist church in Boston because of his socialist sermons. As a member of his congregation, Ford had enjoyed Francis's sermons. Ford later founded the liberal and often controversial Ford Hall Forum, located in downtown Boston.

In 1892 Francis Bellamy was also a chairman of a committee of state superintendents of education in the National Education Association. As its chairman, he prepared the program for the public schools' quadricentennial celebration for Columbus Day in 1892. He structured this public school program around a flag raising ceremony and a flag salute - his 'Pledge of Allegiance.'

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

Dr. Mortimer Adler, American philosopher and last living founder of the Great Books program at Saint John's College, has analyzed these ideas in his book, The Six Great Ideas. He argues that the three great ideas of the American political tradition are 'equality, liberty and justice for all.' 'Justice' mediates between the often conflicting goals of 'liberty' and 'equality.'

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.

In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer.

Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

What follows is Bellamy's own account of some of the thoughts that went through his mind in August, 1892, as he picked the words of his Pledge:

    It began as an intensive communing with salient points of our national history, from the Declaration of Independence onwards; with the makings of the Constitution...with the meaning of the Civil War; with the aspiration of the people...

    The true reason for allegiance to the Flag is the 'republic for which it stands.' ...And what does that vast thing, the Republic mean? It is the concise political word for the Nation - the One Nation which the Civil War was fought to prove. To make that One Nation idea clear, we must specify that it is indivisible, as Webster and Lincoln used to repeat in their great speeches. And its future?

    Just here arose the temptation of the historic slogan of the French Revolution which meant so much to Jefferson and his friends, 'Liberty, equality, fraternity.' No, that would be too fanciful, too many thousands of years off in realization. But we as a nation do stand square on the doctrine of liberty and justice for all...

If the Pledge's historical pattern repeats, its words will be modified during this decade. Below are two possible changes.

Some prolife advocates recite the following slightly revised Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, born and unborn.'

A few liberals recite a slightly revised version of Bellamy's original Pledge: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with equality, liberty and justice for all.'

I also found the following link on the pledge of allegiance to be an amusing read:

http://www.genepool.addr.com/pledge.html

I really like the part -- "one nation under Canada..."

I am a very patriotic person, though dont constantly pledge allegiance...I was in 2 branches of the military myself and I felt VERY proud to be a part of it...My husband and his family know how partiotic I am and use to tease me, but  in a good natured way...I say the pledge when in appropriate things are going on in the US, I've not gotten out and done it here though...I DO have an American flag and it would be up if I didnt think it would get stolen, had my share of American things stolen when we lived in our last home.  I get pretty chapped when I hear people down Americans or our ways...I dont like Bush any more then alot of folks, but he is only one American and the soldiers and others are not to blame for his idiocy....well, guess I went off on one there...but this is ONE American who is darned proud!

As for saying the pledge, well when I'm with my friends I tend to like to have a chat, drink, and a laugh.  I don't see it as a time to say the pledge.

Mindy, I KNEW there was something we forgot to do on Saturday!!!! LOL.

I am so not a patriotic American. I'm another one who wouldn't say the pledge past about 6th grade or so. And I wasn't a flag waiver there so I'm not about to be here.... As for ball games, they do sing God Save The Queen at international football matches. Probably figure there's not too much point at home games - which I tend to agree with.... As for the 4th, it was never a big deal to me in the US though it was a nice excuse for a BBQ and to watch fireworks and that's about what it amounts to for me here, too.... DH knows that I'm pretty down on my homeland lately, so we don't need to discuss it, but he certainly understands the concept of patriotism - he's a very loyal Irishman who is fiercely loyal to his country of birth (England) as well - he just doesn't feel the need to show it via songs and chants (unless it's an England football match!  )

Hello MI Friend - I'm a Michigander too! 

Simon called a few times yesterday, and hummed the National Anthem to me.  He's so sweet.

Yes - we have had numerous discussions about how American patriotism differs from UK patriotism, and how we feel about our flag and our country.  It is different, and he is fascinated by what he calls a "refreshing and naive innocence" of Americans toward our country and our patriotism.  He was here for Memorial Day and I took him to the local small town parade.  He stood when the veterans went by, he is very respectful of their sacrifice.

Yes - I do own a flag.  As a matter of fact, I just bought a beautiful one at an estate sale that has never been used.  An elderly woman bought it on 9/11 from her local VFW hall.  She was then told that she couldn't fly it from the balcony of her retirement community so it stayed in the box.  It's the nice heavy nylon fabric kind with the embroidered stars and stitched stars, not the printed on type.  One of Simon's first observations when he got here was - "there are flags EVERYWHERE!!!" 

Yes - I do recite the pledge when given the opportunity.  If I happen to be in the car at 7:30am, and on the right radio station, they have children call up and recite the pledge every morning.  They then play the National Anthem.  I think it's a lovely way to start the day, remembering how much I love my country and how fortunate I am to have been born here with all its privilege and opportunity.

I am very patriotic, and proud to be an American.

~Liza