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Topic: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)  (Read 3596 times)

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UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« on: July 18, 2005, 05:22:22 PM »
Thanks to a recent thread (Blood Test and PETS), the topic of banned breeds was mentioned.  It was believed only pit bulls were banned.

However, after looking at http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/ddogsleaflet.pdf
you discover in DETAIL that it's not only pure breeds pits, but any "type" of dog that may exhibit the characteristics or behaviors of pits AND that there are THREE other banned breeds: Dogo Argentino, Japanese Tosa, and the Fila Braziliero.  I was surprised to also learn that up till 1997 these animals were DESTROYED if brought into the country.  How atrocious.

Just wanted more people to know in case they might have a questionable breed (or mix).

Best wishes,
Grant
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 07:18:35 PM by Grant »



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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2005, 06:32:15 PM »
God I should hope not.  I plan to bring my pitbull to England with me after one year.  I do not know if she is full or part, I got her at the pound and they seemed to think she was mixed.  If anyone has had the experience of bringing one of these breeds with you, please share your experience!
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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2005, 06:34:11 PM »
God I should hope not.  I plan to bring my pitbull to England with me after one year.  I do not know if she is full or part, I got her at the pound and they seemed to think she was mixed.  If anyone has had the experience of bringing one of these breeds with you, please share your experience!

It won't happen, unless you can convince the authorities that the dog is actually a mixed boxer type breed
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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2005, 06:44:58 PM »
Thanks to a recent thread (Blood Test and PETS), the topic of banned breeds was mentioned.  It was beleived only pit bulls were banned.

However, after looking at http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/welfare/domestic/ddogsleaflet.pdf
you discover in DETAIL that it's not ony pure breeds pits, but any "type" of dog that may exhibit the charataristics or behavoirs of pits AND that there are THREE other banned breeds: Dogo Argentino, Japanese Tosa, and the Fila Braziliero.  I was surprised to also learn that up till 1997 these animals were DESTROYED if brought into the country.  How atrocious.

Just wanted more people to know incase they might have a questionable breed (or mix).

Best wishes,
Grant

Actually, not necessarily atrocious, we have enough problems in this country with dog fighting, there was no need to import any of these breeds, regardless of intent. I understand the lady above, wants to bring her beloved pet over here, but if the dog displays enough characteristics of the breed, that dog will be attractive to people who steal dogs for baiting and fighting, disgusting fact of life, even if the dog is as sweet natured as the day is long.

How are the authorities to make the distinction between the dogs sent over for fighting and breeding programmes and family pets? The lady above for example could be bringing a dog in for anyone (but I am not saying she is)

Another sad fact in this country: these kinds of dogs are usually in the wrong hands - case in point last week toddler killed by a so called american bull terrier, all because the child was not maintained safely around the animal, an animal that can turn at any time and has the strength to lock on and just not let go, no rationale, pure instinct and owners who didn't have the strength to try to get the dog off.
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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2005, 06:57:34 PM »
I think it's more complicated.  Blaming and killing the dog is partially victim blaming.  As you stated the dog may not be the issue, but what the owners do with it, or sometimes just the history of the breed regardless of the individual dog's dimeaner.  Child trafficking is a problem in some countries but I don't think we should punish the children. 

Granted, some dogs are unfortunately bred to be monsters and that's diffrent.  But for other dogs,
I think the issue is (or should be) more around Breeding and intent to breed and/or fight.  Neutered pits (even pure breds) are a whole different story than a male unneutered pit.  Then when you throw in the genetic hybridity of some mixes it becomes even less of an issue.   

More to the point however, the grey area around the "Type" policy is what's alarming because mix-dogs are in vague unprotected zone.   And as you stated, the dog might be as loving as the day is long.  Does this dog really deserve to be put down (or barred from entry) just because she may have some phenotype of a pit and people might want to steal her?  And would they really want to steal her if she's so passive? 

I think it should come down to enforcement on fighting rings and responsibility of owners (maybe stricter dog licensing for aggressive breeds), not excluding (and especially not killing!) harmless dogs that happen to have brindle stripes.

 
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 07:16:44 PM by Grant »



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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2005, 07:10:00 PM »
Also,
Is any one familiar with the other breeds and the possible logic behind their ban? Pits, I know have a history of being in underground fighting circles, but I've never heard of a Dogo Argentino, Japanese Tosa, or Fila Braziliero fighting scene.  Are they just notoriously bitchy/aggressive breeds or what?  their pictures look cute.



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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2005, 07:19:52 PM »
You better check out BA web site it state the  type of animal that is not being allowed into the UK.Below i cut and pasted form the BA site.
With immediate effect, an embargo has been placed on acceptance and carriage of following dog breeds as cargo and as baggage:-
All bulldogs
Pugs
Pekingese
These snub-nosed dogs suffer from respiratory problems that increase with stress. This embargo does not apply to cross-breeds.
In addition:
Pit bull terriers
American pit bulls
Japanese tosas
Fila Brazileiros
Togo Argentinos
Note - Cross-breeds involving any of these dog types are not exempt from this embargo, this also included puppies.
Hope this is helpful.
Sorry if it is bad news.
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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2005, 08:12:53 PM »
You better check out BA web site it state the type of animal that is not being allowed into the UK.Below i cut and pasted form the BA site.
With immediate effect, an embargo has been placed on acceptance and carriage of following dog breeds as cargo and as baggage:-
All bulldogs
Pugs
Pekingese
These snub-nosed dogs suffer from respiratory problems that increase with stress. This embargo does not apply to cross-breeds.
So I guess these dogs must go or can go by ship? or another risk it with an airline that allows them (if it exists)?



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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2005, 08:18:02 PM »
This was introduced years ago and I'm struggling to remember the thinking behind it.  I know that all pit-bulls and cross bred pit bulls were banned because they are very difficult to tell if it's a pure breed and the thinking was that people would and did lie about it not being a pit bull. 
This sounds terrible, but at the time alot of um, unsavoury type people had pit-bulls and there alot of instances of them attacking children and being set against the police. 

A Japanese Tosa is I think enourmous and is in fact bred for agression. 


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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2005, 10:34:34 PM »
I think it's more complicated.  Blaming and killing the dog is partially victim blaming.  As you stated the dog may not be the issue, but what the owners do with it, or sometimes just the history of the breed regardless of the individual dog's dimeaner.  Child trafficking is a problem in some countries but I don't think we should punish the children. 

Granted, some dogs are unfortunately bred to be monsters and that's diffrent.  But for other dogs,
I think the issue is (or should be) more around Breeding and intent to breed and/or fight.  Neutered pits (even pure breds) are a whole different story than a male unneutered pit.  Then when you throw in the genetic hybridity of some mixes it becomes even less of an issue.   

More to the point however, the grey area around the "Type" policy is what's alarming because mix-dogs are in vague unprotected zone.   And as you stated, the dog might be as loving as the day is long.  Does this dog really deserve to be put down (or barred from entry) just because she may have some phenotype of a pit and people might want to steal her?  And would they really want to steal her if she's so passive? 

I think it should come down to enforcement on fighting rings and responsibility of owners (maybe stricter dog licensing for aggressive breeds), not excluding (and especially not killing!) harmless dogs that happen to have brindle stripes.


Blaming and killing the dog is indeed punishing the victim in many cases, but I don't go along with the child trafficking analogy, in my experience (and I have quite a bit in this area) most trafficked  children do not pose any risk to hurting, maiming or killing other children.

Anyway, back to topic, you are also right that the issue should be more around breeding (yeah, good luck with that, people like me have fought for years to promote safe and respectable breeding), but whilst there is a lucrative industry for what is now considered a disposable possession, nothing will change.

The only difference neuturing will make is perhaps in a dog/dog situation, it won't make any difference in a dog/child/adult situation.

To my knowledge, no-one puts down a breed based on their coat type, I didn't understand the brindle stripe comment? Licensing was abolished in this country many years ago- a big mistake, as were the rules for breeding b*tches and how many people kept, but again, when the payoff is so lucrative and you have some governments actively encouraging their people to breed dogs for added income (Ireland) and local authorities that provide grants for "puppy farmers" (Welsh Assembly) and aggressive breeds (Pit Bull) are made fashionable by influential hip-hop cultural icons (thanks Big Boi et al)as well as dogs in general being touted around by the likes of Paris Hiltonscum et al and dog fighting is considered a "sport", it will never change.

I have personally had an English B.T latch on to an elderly dog of mine many years ago, I have seen many fatal bait injuries at first hand, you come tell me when you have seen that that an unneutered animal makes any difference and then we will talk, and talk and talk, this is one of my most emotive subjects- I make no apologies for that. The clue is in "BULL", these dogs are strong enough to take down bulls and kill them, that's the point.

People will just have to come up with another alternative for their dogs.  For me, my dog was so important to me, I chose to stay 6 years longer in this country because I didn't want to uproot my own dog and put her at risk on a flight, I would not consider bringing a dog here who would be subject to this law and it does happen to be an enforceable law- one of the few we have these days and as a start, I support it.


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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2005, 10:41:24 PM »
So I guess these dogs must go or can go by ship? or another risk it with an airline that allows them (if it exists)?

All brachycephalic dogs should go by ship (if allowed), this is only right or fair to the animal, if the owner doesn't care enough not to put their snub nosed, overbred dog in danger, the airlines will, why should they be sued for something they had no control over.

Now, if they forget an animals water, or to check it properly - that IS down to them.
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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2005, 10:45:16 PM »
This was introduced years ago and I'm struggling to remember the thinking behind it.  I know that all pit-bulls and cross bred pit bulls were banned because they are very difficult to tell if it's a pure breed and the thinking was that people would and did lie about it not being a pit bull. 
This sounds terrible, but at the time alot of um, unsavoury type people had pit-bulls and there alot of instances of them attacking children and being set against the police. 

A Japanese Tosa is I think enourmous and is in fact bred for agression. 

Quite right, the traditional Japanese fighting dog, initially bred to guard the herds and the family (and to loyally interact with the children and family members) they have an unbelievable strength and are inappropriate as "family" pets, forced to live in the totally domesticated, artifical and stressful environment we expect animals to live in these days.

Same with the Argentinian Mastiff and the Brazilian Mastiff, originally bred for a purpose, can be marvellously loyal and a good family pet, but one should always, but always be guarded and they should never fall into the wrong hands of the scumbags that like seeing animals tearing each others limbs off, or worse as people in this country love, tie a defenceless bait dog to a pole and let a fighter go at him.......
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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2005, 11:15:45 PM »
New-Dawn,

I agree with many of your points, and having had my own dog attacked by a pit I can relate to a certain degree, but I still don't believe this merits the exclusion and/or the death of harmless mixes.  I think we simply disagree on how the law should be dealt and on who, the animal or the human.

More so, I am concerned with the ambiguity of "type" and WHO gets to decided and on what characteristics qualify a dog as an undesirable (thus the brindle comment). 

I have to say, that on a recent visit to Bath's impressive no-kill shelter, I remember seeing a number of dogs I assumed had some pit in their mixed breeding.  I thought nothing of it until now.

I guess I'm left wondering when applying eugenics to dogs, what sort of breed/mix continuum does an official use in adjudicating a dog's (and the owner's) fate?
« Last Edit: July 18, 2005, 11:18:51 PM by Grant »



The world we have created is a product of our thinking;
it cannot be changed without changing our thinking.
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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2005, 03:57:27 AM »
WOW.  Im not really that surprised.  I read an article last week that in Denver, CO they are destroying pit bulls, actually coming to your home and taking your dog.  If you cant find a home for them outside of Denver, they will put them to sleep.  I didnt finish the story because I was pretty disturbed.  This is a big deal here in San Fran at the moment as well.  The pit bull debate.  Its quite sad.  Especially for the people who have rescued pits and given them a loving home.


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Re: UK Bans 4 Dog Breeds (and certain mutts)
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2005, 01:43:37 AM »
you CANNOT bring a pit to England or it will be destroyed immediatly my UK hub says


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