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Topic: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?  (Read 8953 times)

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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2005, 10:26:15 AM »
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Hmm, the idiot below us just bought a Hummer (bright yellow at that!).  I wonder how he's coping with filling that monster up

This is the real shame. Someone who can afford a Hummer (unless they're REALLY running up some credit card debt) will most likely not be affected by price rises no matter how high it goes. If they can shell out $60-100,000 for a vehicle I'm sure they won't be too bothered by $4/gallon gas.

Um, this is the kicker, Matt ... I and this Hummer eejit both live in the UK!  With gas prices as they are, I can't imagine what induced this chap to buy that monster.  Discounting that, how he is able to park and get out of it is beyond me.  Given the small parking spaces, he must be one hell of a contortion artist!
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2005, 11:47:02 AM »
One thing I would say about petrol price rises is that they have hardly moved compared to the US.  I understand the average price in the US was somewhere around $1.80 a year ago, now it's about $2.70 on average, 90 cents is a big jump in one year.

That is one heck of a big rise.   When I left Nebraska in '96 I was paying $1.10 a gallon, so I suppose $1.80 a year or so ago wasn't too bad. 

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The last big difference is octane in petrol........ With cars only generally needing services every 10,000 miles it probably prolongs the life of the car or at least causes fewer problems due to the higher purity of the petrol (I'm guessing, I'm not an expert on this!)

A lot of the octane requirement is down to the engine design.  In general, a higher octane fuel is needed for engines which have a higher compression ratio.   Quite a number of the big high-performance engines 35 years ago had compression ratios greater than 10:1, and needed to run on premium gas to avoid pinging (called "pinking" in the U.K.).    With the changeover to unleaded fuel, catalytic converters, etc. compressio ratios have come right down to nearer 8:1, and the engines are designed to run on lower octane fuel.   Part of the difference in the lower octane rating becoming standard for U.S. engines was the much stricter emission controls in America during the 1970s and 1980s (although Europe is now catching up).

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There's just a lot more space in America so people have to drive further in general.  If someone in Britain is driving a lot for work, they often have company cars or are going to multiple client sites or the like and the company may pay for part or all of their travel anyway.

It does hit many of us in rural areas though, especially those of us who are self-employed and thus have to cover all the costs out of our own pockets.   True, things are nowhere near as spread out here as in most parts of the States, but compared to the British towns we need to drive around a lot more.

We get rather mad at the assorted government officials appearing on TV and telling us we need to use public transport instead of our cars whenever possible.    In a lot of villages public transport just isn't an option.

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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2005, 11:52:47 AM »
We get rather mad at the assorted government officials appearing on TV and telling us we need to use public transport instead of our cars whenever possible.    In a lot of villages public transport just isn't an option.



What maddens me is that ANY official who does this and doesn't use public transport him/herself is a lying hypocrite.  And, even worse, a lying hypocrite who believes the public are too stupid to see right through them. 

Public tranport is definitely not an option in many places.  In others, it's a too expensive, inconvenient (if it takes you twice to three times the amount of time to get to work using public transport v. a car and you have to pay childcare costs as well, this can be pricey), and unsafe (shift workers who work in a dodgy neighbourhood and end their shifts late) option.


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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2005, 10:10:59 PM »
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Part of the difference in the lower octane rating becoming standard for U.S. engines was the much stricter emission controls in America during the 1970s and 1980s (although Europe is now catching up).
Forgive my ignorance but are you saying because of stricter emissions standards for US engines cars can get away with 87 octane or that 87 octane actually petrol puts out less emissions?

Thanks,
Matt
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2005, 11:42:31 PM »
This is insane.

Monday I paid $2.57/gal
Tuesday night $2.70/gal
Today it's up to over $3.00/gal - one station was at $3.36/gal

I'm ordering DSL for my home computer and will try to work from home two days a week.  I will be trading in my Jeep for a PT Cruiser, hopefully this week depending on the sales incentives.

Heating my home this winter is going to be a killer.  Hopefully it will improve at some point during next year.  Now I can turn down the thermostat when I'm at work, but once Simon gets here, and until he's able to find a job, we will have to keep the heat up during the day.  It just really totally sux.

It could be worse, I know, I could be in New Orleans.  But I am still very concerned about this whole gas thing.  And right when I had put myself on a really great budget to save a ton of money before next year.  So much for THAT idea!!!

~Liza
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2005, 11:55:23 PM »
This is insane.

Monday I paid $2.57/gal
Tuesday night $2.70/gal
Today it's up to over $3.00/gal - one station was at $3.36/gal



Holy cow!   :o  I was just complaining because the price has climbed $.20/gallon since Monday....guess I've got it pretty good!  (Currently $2.70 - of course, that was at lunchtime, it may have shot up again since then.)  This commute is killing me!!!  Ninety to 100 miles PER DAY!  Another reason to quit early!  >:(
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #51 on: September 01, 2005, 12:05:37 AM »
Matt,

You'll have to keep in mind that I'm not a chemist, just an electronics engineer who happens to be an old car enthusiast, so my knowledge of the chemistry behind the formulation of fuel is rather limited.     Anyway, I'll do my best!

It's not that the lower octane fuel reduces emissions in itself, just that the increasingly strict emissions laws and gas-mileage requirements of the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) resulted in the compression ratios of engines coming down from the average they'd been at during the "muscle car" era of the late 1960s/very early 1970s.

The compression ratio of the engine is one of the primary factors which determines the octane rating of the fuel needed.    The compression stroke just prior to the spark raises the temperature of the fuel mixture in the cylinder.  If the fuel is too volatile, this can result in pre-detonation, the mixture actually igniting before the spark from the plug.    

Pre-detonation gives rise to a metallic knocking, or pinging sound under heavy acceleration (or in severe cases, under almost any acceleration).  It reduces the power available, and can actually result in increased emissions due to the fact the the whole of the mixture is not properly burned.  In the long term, it can also result in engine damage.

Gasoline with a higher octane rating is less volatile, and thus can be used at higher compression ratios which would cause pre-detonation with a lower octane fuel.    

The reason that higher octane gas is traditionally associated with high-performance engines is not because the fuel itself contains any more energy.  It's because the more powerful engines use a higher compression ratio to extract more power from the fuel, and it's that higher ratio which necessitates the use of "super" or "premium" gasoline.

One of the main reasons for adding lead (most often tetra-ethyl lead) to gasoline since the 1920s was that it raised the octane rating, preventing knocking.   As lead has been phased out, other additives have taken over.  

There are many other factors which have an effect on fuel volatility though, including ambient temperature, altitude (which determines density and atmospheric pressure), etc.     Many people don't realize that the oil companies actually alter the formulation slightly between summer and winter, and between high and low altitude markets to account for this.  

One other point I should have mentioned is that the octane rating shown on U.S. pumps is calculated differently to that shown in the U.K., so the difference is not quite as great as you might think from looking at the numbers.

Britain uses the Research Octane Number, which --  if I recall correctly --  is virtually a high-end octane rating based on a static measurement.   The U.S. rating uses an average of the research octane and a "motor" octane rating, which is calculated on a much more dynamic basis to account for varying conditions.  

The result is a 4 or 5 point difference, thus the basic 95 octane gas sold in Britain is roughly equivalent to 90 or 91 octane under the American system of measurement.

In both countries, the maximum rating now commonly available at the pumps is lower than in the past, so old cars with high-compression engines often need to run with an extra additive which boosts the octane rating (and which acts as a replacement for lead, which was also used as a lubricant).

Any fellow Brits remember the days when you could buy 2-star, 3-star, 4-star, and at one time even 5-star petrol here?  


« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 12:13:27 AM by Paul_1966 »
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2005, 02:00:36 PM »
Today - just about everywhere in the Detroit area, prices are over $3.00/gal.  I saw on the news this morning one station in Atlanta, GA which had regular for over $5.00/gal!!!!!  :o  But the governers and the president are saying they will have zero tollerance with anyone who is trying to price gouge.

Yep - the DSL can't come to my house fast enough.  Bought the modem last night, now I just need to get it in the mail and schedule the install.  Hopefully I'll be able to do a couple days a week from home.  Sigh....I really hate working from home.  But oh well, we do what we have to I guess.  :(  I just don't feel as productive, but maybe with a faster connection I will.   :-\\\\

~Liza
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2005, 11:31:42 PM »
Paul,
Thanks for the rundown on compression ratios and octane.  I guess those cars with higher compression ratios and octane levels end up producing higher emissions then?

Lizaanne, does the PT Cruiser get good mileage?  it looks like it only gets about 20 MPG.  Wouldn't a smaller car get much better mileage?
Good luck with the DSL.  The service and modems are very easy to setup, you just plug into your phone line and USB into your PC, install the software and voila, you're cruising the Net at high speed!

Matt
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2005, 11:44:45 PM »
We just emigrated back to the US last week, and given where we are living, a truck/SUV is almost a necessity (washed out roads, long way to the nearest lumberyard, etc). I just bought a Ford Escape (a mini SUV). But I am trying to avoid unnecessary trips. Even at $2.67 a gallon, that is pittance to what it cost to fill up DH's car in the UK. With the Katrina crisis, our petrol has only gone up 2 cents (so far). Pity the poor folk in Atlanta that are paying $5.67 a gallon- they'd feel right at home in England!


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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #55 on: September 01, 2005, 11:52:56 PM »
The gas price increase has changed my life in that I now actually pay more attention to how much I am paying for gas. I look at signs at each station I pass and grumble when I see the price go up over the course of a day. But I really don't do things that differently. Regardless of the price, I still need it and I still need to use my car, it's just part of life where I live. I guess one thing I have been doing differently is filling my tank up more frequently... way before I normally would. I put gas in yesterday when I still had well over a half tank.
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #56 on: September 02, 2005, 12:04:21 AM »
As Americans, I think we are spoiled.  We don't want to pay $3.89 for a gallon of gas (as I did today, spending $64.00 to fill my SUV which gets 12.5 miles/gallon). 
But the US hasn't even yet caught-up to the UK prices!
And yes, I'll absolutely still drive around the corner to go to the grocery store in the US.

About a month ago, when it took me the equivalent of $78.00 to fill up my Brit DF's VW Golf, then I complained. 
In the UK, I walk or take the train or tube.
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2005, 12:10:55 AM »
I saw a piece today that gas in Atlanta is $5.89 a gallon. I filled up yesterday at $2.89, today it was up to $3.09 and $3.49 in some places. I'm in Wisconsin.


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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #58 on: September 02, 2005, 12:23:56 AM »
I saw a piece today that gas in Atlanta is $5.89 a gallon.

Youch!     :o     

When I was down that way Georgia seemed to be a cheap state for gas.    I remember filling up somewhere around Valdosta for just 99 cents per gallon.  It sticks in my mind as the cheapest gas I ever bought in the States.  At that time (92/93) I think it was averaging about $1.25 just over the state line into Fla. with the higher tax.
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Re: Gas Prices - has it changed how you live your day to day?
« Reply #59 on: September 02, 2005, 06:08:56 PM »
Lizaanne, does the PT Cruiser get good mileage?  it looks like it only gets about 20 MPG.  Wouldn't a smaller car get much better mileage?
Good luck with the DSL.  The service and modems are very easy to setup, you just plug into your phone line and USB into your PC, install the software and voila, you're cruising the Net at high speed!

Matt

The Cruiser gets decent mileage considering what it is.  I live in Michigan - we get bad snow in the winter and I personally don't feel safe driving a car, so I prefer something more SUV like.  I was looking at mileage comparisions today and the Jeep Liberty I'm in now gets the same mileage as the Cruiser actually, so I may just stick with what I have and just get a new model since my lease is up anyway.

Sooooo looking forward to the DSL!!!  Got approval from my manager to do at least two days a week from home, more if I need to.  And I got a brand new cable modem on eBay for $19.45!!!  Gotta love eBay!!  This weekend I think I'll get a wireless router so I can work anywhere in the house with the laptop.  I found one at Best Buy for $39.99.  Gas prices be damned!!!  I'll just turn my house into my office!!!  ;)

~Liza
"Be not the slave of your own past - plunge into the sublime seas, dive deep, and swim far, so you shall come back with self-respect, with a new power, with an advanced experience, that shall explain and overlook the old."  ~Ralph Waldo Emerson


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