Registered baby

Both my brothers and myself have both British and American passports and have never had trouble trouble in our travels in Europe as kids.  It actually came quite in handy when we went back to England on holiday years ago as we could stand in the VERY short queue for citizens at the airport on both ends since we've got citizenship, while watching others set up camp in the very long queue for non-citizens. 

Interesting fact:  At the time when I was born in Italy during the 80's, any child born there HAD to be registered as an Italian citizen or the child would not be allowed to leave the country.  My parents registered me and now I've got triple citizenship.  I'd be interested to know if that law/procedure has changed...

We got Aillidh a British passport just in case.  LOL!  In case we won the Lotto and our dreams of a holiday property in the Bourdeaux region came to reality.   

I agree it's a STUPID law and I cannot understand a country supposedly ruled as a constitutional democracy forces citizenship (with resulting tax ramifications and draft rules) on foreign-born nationals.

I work with an academic born to an American mother and Scots father in Fife.  But he never set foot in the US and renounced all claim to citizenship the second he turned 18. 

  I wouldn't want to see my kids ever renounce their US citizenship but apparantly the IRS can NAIL an American living abroad who has never set foot on US soil if he gets rich enough and doesn't report it.

  I wouldn't want to see my kids ever renounce their US citizenship but apparantly the IRS can NAIL an American living abroad who has never set foot on US soil if he gets rich enough and doesn't report it.

Well, it's a choice you make I guess.  How important is USA citizenship?  Important enough to warrent paying the tax?  Then suck it up.  If paying the tax man isn't something you are willing to do, renounce citizenship and be free of the worry.

Personally, I'd rather pay the tax money.  But then, I am an American, always will be...even when I become British.

Uh, I don't think you read my post Frances.  I wasn't complaining about paying taxes and  I said that I would NOT want to see my kids give up their US citizenship.  But someone who has lived abroad their whole life and does not want to pay US tax should renounce if that is how they feel.  My kids and I won't be spending our lives outside of the US.

I find it galling that any child has 'forced' citizenship to a country in which it was not born nor has ever been registered, leaving them open to future tax or draft implications.  If the parents register the birth as 'aboard', then fine, they are signalling their intent for their child to have citizenship rights.

However, forcing US citizenship on my child when I haven't -- nor likely ever will -- register his birth is rather draconian IMHO.

Uh, I don't think you read my post Frances.  I wasn't complaining about paying taxes and  I said that I would NOT want to see my kids give up their US citizenship.  But someone who has lived abroad their whole life and does not want to pay US tax should renounce if that is how they feel.  My kids and I won't be spending our lives outside of the US.

I did read your post.  I understand what you are saying, and don't have issue with it.  I was mearly stating my opinion on the issue in general terms.

I also know that there are people who strongly resent having to pay taxes, but feel strongly about citizenship.  So, they have to make a choice.  As much as people would like, they can't have it all.

Cait: I may have missed something here, but I don't think a child is forced by the government to take citizenship.  The issue (as I understand it) is that IF a child with a legitimate claim to citizenship doesn't take it up (either by registering a birth abroad and/or obtaining and USING a US passport for entry to the states) they LOOSE the chance to be "American".  It means that they can travel to the states on their UK citizenship.

Cait: I may have missed something here, but I don't think a child is forced by the government to take citizenship. The issue (as I understand it) is that IF a child with a legitimate claim to citizenship doesn't take it up (either by registering a birth abroad and/or obtaining and USING a US passport for entry to the states) they LOOSE the chance to be "American". It means that they can travel to the states on their UK citizenship.

But one of the other posters mentioned the airlines can refuse a passengers boarding if they they think they have a claim to US citizenship? What happens then? You have to renounce your US citezenship at the ticket counter? 

It's all total BS. I have four sons two of which were born in the UK and never set foot in the USA but the US gov't expects me to have them registered as US citizens for tax AND draft purposes??!! Methinks not. There are many other lovely places in this world to holiday on their UK passports.

I find it galling that any child has 'forced' citizenship to a country in which it was not born nor has ever been registered, leaving them open to future tax or draft implications.  If the parents register the birth as 'aboard', then fine, they are signalling their intent for their child to have citizenship rights.

However, forcing US citizenship on my child when I haven't -- nor likely ever will -- register his birth is rather draconian IMHO.

I couldn't agree more, especially as we talking about peoples' lives here - the draft thing, for example - or their economic livelihood. 

The academic I know was vehemently opposed to having to put his name down for the draft OR to inform what he considered a foreign government of his financial doings.  All b/c of some accident of birth? 

What an utter load of b*&locks, IMO. 

Well, it's a choice you make I guess. How important is USA citizenship? Important enough to warrent paying the tax? Then suck it up. If paying the tax man isn't something you are willing to do, renounce citizenship and be free of the worry.

Personally, I'd rather pay the tax money. But then, I am an American, always will be...even when I become British.

Actually, even if you renounce your US citizenship completely and utterly, you are STILL legally liable for tax for the next TEN YEARS.

Now - I'm not living the US.  I'm not earning money in the US.  If I visit the US, I do so as a tourist and gain no other benefits different to those enjoyed by other tourists.  Why should I be under any obligation pay the Government any money whatsoever for the "privilege" of having been born in America?

I live in the UK.  I work in the UK.  I pay taxes in the UK.  End of story.

Plus, have you seen how much it costs to get the baby a US passport?  It's far from cheap.  We were stony skint when Aillidh was born and my dad paid for her passport, Special Delivery, photos (the photos were £15 b/c they have to be done on special paper), etc.  That was back in the good ol' days when we could do it at the Consulate in Edinburgh when the Consular General was in.  It's probably all changed now and they're probably forcing people to go to London.

Cait: I may have missed something here, but I don't think a child is forced by the government to take citizenship..

Citizenship from birth is effectively forcing citizenship.

From INA: ACT 301 - NATIONALS AND CITIZENS OF THE UNITED STATES AT BIRTH
g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years

Further to that, http://uscis.gov/graphics/services/natz/faq.htm#q24

If you and your child meet all of these requirements, you may obtain a U.S. passport for the child as evidence of citizenship.

It appears they are saying that citizenship is FROM birth (as we meet the criteria) and a passport is merely evidence of that.

And to make matters worse (from the US Embassy website):

Even if your child holds nationality of a country other than the U.S., if your child has a claim to citizenship, he or she must be in possession of a valid U.S. passport to enter and exit the United States.

He's effectively banned from visiting the US unless I register his birth and get him a passport.  But like Pebbles said, there are plenty of other lovely places to holiday.

Plus, have you seen how much it costs to get the baby a US passport?  It's far from cheap.  We were stony skint when Aillidh was born and my dad paid for her passport, Special Delivery, photos (the photos were £15 b/c they have to be done on special paper), etc.  That was back in the good ol' days when we could do it at the Consulate in Edinburgh when the Consular General was in.  It's probably all changed now and they're probably forcing people to go to London.

Also isnt there a charge to actually register the birth? Total nonsense! If the US gov't wants us to register our babies then it should be free of charge!
I have no intention of registering either of my two Brit born sons.

But like Pebbles said, there are plenty of other lovely places to holiday.

And to live as well! 

IIRC, France doesn't have an extradition treaty w/the US. 

Can I just give my input here as a child whose mother totally renounced any claim to citizenship of her country?  It sucks. The big one.  You think you might be giving them freedom from being American or from the draft or what ever your reasons.  

But hear out my point of view as the child.

I have no rights as a EU member now as a result of my mothers decision. She effectively severed half of my rights and my heritage because SHE could never imagine life in her home country.  She was an American and I was an American and that is all.  Maybe my mother thought she was protecting me or that I would never want to study, go to or have rights in her country of birth.  Well she was wrong.  If she had just thought to register me I would have had it much easier.  I still could have formally renounced my other citizenship at 18 or later if I wanted.  

I don't see it as forcing citizenship on a child.  I see it as giving them a choice when they get older.  I should have had the right to choose.  Instead at the age of 23 I chose to live illegally and I chose to get a work permit and I chose to live in Europe.  You don't know how often I wished I had my other passport.

For me the time to claim citizenship was over.  These things do have statutes of limitations.

So... just something to think about as well.

I personally will give my child the choice.  When they are old enough they can make the decision to renounce or not.  
 
Regardless of how you feel about your home country you have to take into account that your children (despite having a predominately new country culture) will still have dual identities and maybe even allegiances because they have parents with two identities and cultures.  

I have always "felt" more European than American despite growing up on military bases and in a very strong patriotic culture and parents who wanted me to be only American.

Anyway... just a thought for you moms out there who are vehement about denying them dual nationality.