Vonage vs. Skype

I'm highly interested in getting Vonage instead of Skype as a computer is required for Skype. Question is, how does Vonage know what to charge as you can use it anywhere in the world? What if I purchased a Vonage Phone Adapter in the states, activated it and got a local number, then brought it back to the UK as the US rates are cheaper.
Would it work?

Any suggestions or ideas on this are greatly appreciated.

Thanks again.

I've not tried Vonage myself (we've only just got DSL quite recently out here), but I know people have done just what you propose.    I haven't checked the Vonage rates lately, but some time ago they were offering a $39.95 per month package which gave unlimited long-distance calling within the U.S.   

"Within the U.S." in that case means a call from one U.S. number to another U.S. number, regardless of where you are physically located.  So if you had, say, a 212 New York number and used the router to call somewhere else in America from London,  Vonage would regard it as just a normal call within the NANP.   

Similarly, anyone in the U.S. could call you on that 212 number just as if they were actually calling somebody located in New York.     In fact, if they were within the local 212 calling area, it would be treated as a local call as far as they were concerned.

If you're familiar with the way that the old FX lines (Foreign eXchange) used to work, you can just look upon the Vonage/internet link as being part of a very long FX link.

FYI: In the states, they used to be called WATTs lines. Don't know if they are still called that or not.

Isn't the technology now based on VOIP? I can't decide which is the best and most economical way to go...any thoughts?

FYI: In the states, they used to be called WATTs lines. Don't know if they are still called that or not.

They're not the same thing Paula.

WATS (Wide Area Telephone Service) came as both inward and outward WATS.  Inward WATS is what most people would recognize as 800 numbers, toll-free to the caller with the incoming end footing the bill.   Inward WATS could (and still can) be configured to accept calls from within one state, several states, a particular region, nationwide, all of the U.S. & Canada, etc. (ditto of course for the newer 888, 866 etc. toll-free codes).

Outward WATS was a package which allowed companies to dial out to similarly configured state, regional, or national areas at reduced or inclusive rates.  If a company in, say, Chicago did a lot of business with California, they might have had outward WATS service to 213, 415, etc.    But they were still served out of their local central office.

FX lines on the other hand, were where a subscriber just had a line which was physically connected to an exchange other than the one which normally served the area in which he was located.     In a large metropolitan area which had a small-ish local calling area, for example, a company located in a northern suburb might be within the local calling area of downtown, but toll from somewhere way out in the southern suburbs.   If they ran an FX line from somewhere in the city, they might then be a local call to all the surrounding suburbs.   

The FX subscriber would pay for normal telephone service, plus the cost of the FX line, which was virtually a private line from his phone all the way back to the out-of-area exchange.  When he picked up the phone, he would actually get dialtone from that distant office and all incoming and outgoing calls behaved exactly as if he were located there.   

Isn't the technology now based on VOIP? I can't decide which is the best and most economical way to go...any thoughts?

Yes, Voice Over Internet Protocol.   The services and rates are changing so rapidly that it's hard to keep up.

They're not the same thing Paula.

WATS (Wide Area Telephone Service) came as both inward and outward WATS.  Inward WATS is what most people would recognize as 800 numbers, toll-free to the caller with the incoming end footing the bill.   Inward WATS could (and still can) be configured to accept calls from within one state, several states, a particular region, nationwide, all of the U.S. & Canada, etc. (ditto of course for the newer 888, 866 etc. toll-free codes).

Outward WATS was a package which allowed companies to dial out to similarly configured state, regional, or national areas at reduced or inclusive rates.  If a company in, say, Chicago did a lot of business with California, they might have had outward WATS service to 213, 415, etc.    But they were still served out of their local central office.

FX lines on the other hand, were where a subscriber just had a line which was physically connected to an exchange other than the one which normally served the area in which he was located.     In a large metropolitan area which had a small-ish local calling area, for example, a company located in a northern suburb might be within the local calling area of downtown, but toll from somewhere way out in the southern suburbs.   If they ran an FX line from somewhere in the city, they might then be a local call to all the surrounding suburbs.   

The FX subscriber would pay for normal telephone service, plus the cost of the FX line, which was virtually a private line from his phone all the way back to the out-of-area exchange.  When he picked up the phone, he would actually get dialtone from that distant office and all incoming and outgoing calls behaved exactly as if he were located there.   

Yes, Voice Over Internet Protocol.   The services and rates are changing so rapidly that it's hard to keep up.

Thanks, Paul, I knew I could count on you!

I must be confused about what those lines were called here. I remember, back in the '60s, my dad worked in Slidell and we lived in New Orleans. But, we could call him at work on a New Olreans telephone number to avoid long distance. Don't know what it was called but wasn't an 800#. It was a local number for an out-of-town business.

Well, now I knew I wouldn't rest until I researched it. It was referred to as  LATA line. May not be the technical term for it, but it was how the public referred to it to distinguish it from a WATS line. The difference between LATA lines and local toll calls is that local toll calls are made to a telephone number not within the caller's city so the caller bears the cost. LATA calls are made to a local number connected to a phone in another city and the callee bears the cost.

Now I can rest, having officially posted my quota of "geek" knowledge for the day! 

Paul, you are nothing less than a genius and if we ever meet someday, I owe you a huge steak dinner with all the fixings.

I'm thinking Vonage as far as lowest possible rates and no pc required to make the call, as in a working phone while you are off line. (DSL Required Of Course)

There are two packages that attract me:
1. $24.99 - US Unlimited
2. $14.99 - 500 US Minutes

Since all my family lives in the states, paying $14.99 or 8.49GBP is the way to go.
And to make it better, the router is currently free with mail in rebate.

I have to say I'm surprised more people aren't doing this, its almost to good to be true.

Thanks again for all your help - Your the best!

Hi there!

I too am shortly about to take a vonage subscription here in the UK, and if needs be will take up the 'local number in the USA' which routes to me here so that US clients can call me at what appears to them as a national rate call within the US.

I'm not as clued up as Paul1966 is about the 'intracacies' (sp?) of how Vonage works, but I really like the idea of being able to choose area codes, not being physically tied to a physical location and all the other little benefits.

The 'emergency' number access thing doesn't concern me, if my DSL line went down and  had no power, I'd make a emergency call on my mobile phone as it's always with me, and I keep a 2nd spare (charged!) battery with me as well.

The communications arena has been excellent in making the world a smaller place, mixing it with VOIP technology was bound to happen and I for one am sure glad it has! I still use a physical line to get my 'included in £20/month subs' 'free' calls to the US & Canada, and am now to change to another company which allows me to access their exchange on my mobile - becuase I'm with O2, they are the only UK network to 'include' 0845, 0870 access in their 'free minutes', effectively allowing me to make 'free' calls to the US from my mobile

The day a company can include ALL of that in a single provider/package - i'll be signing up veryyyy quickly!

Also Carson, I think the 'adaptor' box you mention will work over here, however if not, you can pick up a similar box quite cheaply off eBay and for around 10-15 quid more from one of the discount communications/IT companies online that sell the box.

HTH a bit!

Cheers! Dennis! West London Slough UK!!

This sounds awesome Carson. I think I may do this so if you want to refer me for the credit, PM me.

We can start a referral chain. 

I want Carson to try it first and let us know. If it is as good as reputed to be, I'll join the referral chain.

I remember, back in the '60s, my dad worked in Slidell and we lived in New Orleans. But, we could call him at work on a New Olreans telephone number to avoid long distance. Don't know what it was called but wasn't an 800#. It was a local number for an out-of-town business.

Well, now I knew I wouldn't rest until I researched it. It was referred to as  LATA line.

That sounds very much as if it could have been a Foreign-Exchange line.   The only LATA term I know stands for Local Access & Transport Area, but so far as I'm aware that only came into use in the 1980s after the breakup of Ma Bell.

With the various telephone companies in the U.S., there are variations in some terminology, and it's quite possible that one particular phone company used its own particular term for what would in general be called an FX line, so maybe your LATA meant something else back then.   If you were with South Central Bell in the 1960s, they would most likely have followed standard Bell System naming of things, but I think even within the Bell companies there were some variations.  If it was an independent phone company, then anything goes.

I assume that your father's company did quite a bit of business with New Orleans.  Given the proximity of Slidell, the cost of an FX line (or whatever the local TelCo called it) would have been cheaper than paying for all the toll calls.   Plus, of course, it would have been an incentive for customers in N.O. to call as they would not be paying toll charges.

Sometimes these were used for prestige purposes.  In New York, for example, a company actually located in a less fashionable part of the West Side might get an FX line from an exchange which served all those fancy places over on 5th Avenue (maybe in combination with an accommodation address there).  The prefix (first three digits) of the phone number would then make it look as if they were in a more upmarket area.

But I digress........

Paul, you are nothing less than a genius and if we ever meet someday, I owe you a huge steak dinner with all the fixings.

Medium-rare please!    

I'm thinking Vonage as far as lowest possible rates and no pc required to make the call, as in a working phone while you are off line. (DSL Required Of Course)

There are two packages that attract me:
1. $24.99 - US Unlimited
2. $14.99 - 500 US Minutes

I just had a very quick look at the Vonage site.  Looks as though the rates have dropped considerably.

As I said, I have no first-hand experience of Vonage, so I can only pass on what I've heard from other people.   I've seen reports from some people who swear by it, and others who seem to be ready to swear at it.    

Unlike a regular phone system, you aren't guaranteed a certain bandwidth of signal to carry your conversation.  The link is at the mercy of the internet, which as I'm sure everyone is aware doesn't guarantee that packets of data will always get to their destination within a certain length of time and during periods when the routes in use are busy, things can slow down quite a bit.  For VoIP applications, that can result in lower voice quality and maybe momentary interruptions (a little like cellphones in some ways).    Obviously a lot is going to depend upon the speed of your DSL connection, and the traffic and bandwidth available via your ISP.  As you would expect, using your DSL connection for VoIP and other data simultaneously is also going to restrict the bandwidth.

I've also seen reports that some people have had difficulties dealing with Vonage customer services in getting any problems sorted out, although others have said everything has been fine.   Against any potential problems of course, the rates are good and you get the added benefit of letting friends and relatives call you at normal NANP or even local rates if you pick a number in the right area.

The 'emergency' number access thing doesn't concern me, if my DSL line went down and  had no power, I'd make a emergency call on my mobile phone as it's always with me, and I keep a 2nd spare (charged!) battery with me as well.

I wouldn't have VoIP as the only method of communication.   A cellphone or POTS line as backup would certainly be a good idea, plus if you're on VoIP with a North American number you'd want people in the U.K. to be able to call you without placing an international call!

( POTS = A non-official "geek" term which means Plain Old Telephone Service.   )

A couple of extra points........

I haven't read right through the latest Vonage information, but as of a few months ago if you were signing up for a NANP number they were not guaranteeing anything outside the United States and would only ship the box and related items to a U.S. address.   Obviously this wouldn't be a problem for most people on this forum.

Regarding VoIP and emergency calls, this actually stirred up some trouble just recently.    Obviously if you have a number in a different area there is a problem with 911 calls.  You might have a number in NPA 212, but if you're located in Thunder Butte, South Dakota, it wouldn't be terribly helpful to have a 911 call answered in Manhattan!

VoIP services need to know exactly where you want your 911 call to go so that they can intercept it and route it to the appropriate place.    They had been working on the principle that 911 would not go anywhere until the subscriber notified them of the desired number.  Apparently the service contracts made this clear, telling users that unless and until Vonage or whoever was notified, that they would not have any 911 facility. 

The FCC, however, was trying to force through a bill which would have required VoIP providers to cease all service by a certain date to any subscriber who had not notified his 911 preference.   

Only the bureaucratic mind could have come up with a system designed to insure that everyone had access to emergency service by forcibly removing the ability to place any call whatsoever...... 

Dear Friends here's the latest information and where I am with this project.

First:
I researched the "Phone Adaptors" Vonage was selling and others on the market.

Primary Concern - Voltage, it has to be 110/220 or I need to buy a power down adaptor.

Secondary Concern - If I purchase it in the UK, Vonage may have the IBAN number on file as it being a UK product and not allow me to register it as a US account and phone number.

First I called Vonage, their customer service I think was in India, but they do confirm their product will work worldwide as long as the ISP supports it at the local rate. (Local Rate/Calling plan of country where it is registered, if I register it in Texas and use it in the UK, then call a UK number, I pay UK long distance charges, now if I call the US - Completely covered as in packaged plan, NO long distance)

And so far:
Solution to Primary Concern - (Voltage) I searched the Vonage website throughly and found nothing they sold (In the US) as more than a 110v, so then I went to alternate websites looking for Vonage Phone Adaptors.
 
First site was Tiger Direct, they had a link to all the Phone Adaptors Vonage has sold, but may no longer sell and after even more research I discovered the: Motorola Digital Phone Adapter for Vonage (VT1005V)
 - But It was no longer for sale by Vonage as they are now selling primarily Linksys.
 - Found it! www.circuitcity.com Circuit City still sells them and Yes! They are 110/220v so we are in business, all I need now is a really cheap no voltage AC/DC converter available just about anywhere so I can connect it to the outlet. With rebates the Motorola ends up being completely FREE. (See website for details)

$79.99
Motorola Digital Phone Adapter for Vonage (VT1005V)
MOT VT1005V 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
subtotal: $79.99
shipping:  $0.00
total sales tax:  $6.60
total current purchase:  $86.59
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I ordered it and it shipped today, to my parents house in Fort Worth Texas.
Once it arrives, Mom will simply place a new FedEx shipping label on the box and forward it to me.

Second Concern Solved - Purchased from Circuit City in the US

So we wait, I can activate it on-line so there is no talking to a customer service agent and using my US Debit Card (Only Drawback) . You have to pay for it with a US Debit/Credit card (Or) use American Express. As you may know AMEX doesn't use address verification on their credit cards. Okay, paying for it with a US Debit Card - the one I use is provided by NatWest on my off-shore bank account, so I really use pounds to pay for it instead of dollars. 

What if you don't have a US Credit/Debit card.
Simple - Open up a PrePaid MasterCard account on-line and have it registered at a friend or relatives house. The phone will need to be registered there as to get the local phone number. Don't worry about location, Vonage doesn't care how many accounts are opened at one address. About 911 - Register it if you have to but Don't use it, problem solved.

Now we wait, I need to look for my old US telephone so I can connect to the Vonage box that will be here next week. (Unless my BT phone will work?)

I can't wait to get started with this as my last monthly phone bill was over 200.00 GBP.

To be continued ....

Take Care

Great post/info Carson! Let us know how the quality is when you get it set up.

I've just finished setting up my Vonage account.  I set up a UK based account, where my main number is a London 0207 number.  I'm paying £10 per month for unlimited calls to UK/Ireland landlines.  It's 2p per minute to call the US, but I've also added a 'Virtual Phone Number' option for an additional £2.99 per month.  That gives me a US number with a St. Louis exchange so my family and friends can call me anytime they want.

Quality has been just fine, it comes standard with Caller ID, 3-Way Calling, some fancy voicemail that forwards your messages to your e-mail as .wav attachments, call forwarding and probably a bunch of other stuff that I haven't explored yet.  So far so good!

It will be good to get some more results from practical experiences with using a U.S.-based Vonage account here.

Now we wait, I need to look for my old US telephone so I can connect to the
Vonage box that will be here next week. (Unless my BT phone will work?)

The basic line operating standards are pretty much the same, and the adapter boxes are supposed to provide the characteristics of a regular phone line, so it should work.

The only catch is the connections and a possible problem with the ringer, depending upon the design of the British phone.  A U.S. standard phone just uses a 2-wire connection on the middle pair of contacts on the modular jack (the RJ11 standard), so that's how the jack on the box will be configured.

British phones have started using the American-type modular connectors for the telephone end of the cord in recent years, but the connections can be different, because the cords are generally a flat type (four wires all side by side) and the normal BT plug places the line on the outer pair of contacts. 

Moreover, BT jacks provide a separate ringing line on one of the remaining wires which needs to be connected to the phone for it to ring properly.   If your phone is expecting that configuration, then you would need to use a short adapter lead with British socket which incorporates a bell capacitor.

Some of the newer phones sold here have abandoned the use of the separate ringer line and just use a simple 2-wire connection on the inner contacts of the RJ11 jack, just like U.S. phones.  They then just have a 2-wire cord which connects the inner RJ11 contacts to the outer pair on the BT plug.    If you remove the modular plug from the phone and it has just two center contacts next to each other, then it's this type.  In this case, you can just replace the cord with one which has a modular connector at each end and it should work.

P.S.  If you are using any sort of caller ID features, then they won't work on a U.K. phone.  The U.S. and U.K. systems use a different method of sending the data.