What is the purpose of your visit...???

Lisa, I'm really sorry if you felt you being jumped on or misinterpreted.  I obviously mistook what you said, and for that I sincerely do apologize...I'm sorry.  You gave great advice and have made some very valid points.  Thanks for trying to help me avoid the grilling, and after reviewing some of the other posts and yours, I think I will follow the lead of "less is more" and be prepared to give examples of places I will be visiting...and let me tell you I have a list a mile long of places I would like to visit this time!!!  If only I didn't have to cram all the sightseeing, along with the other daily stuff, into such a short time span.

Anyhow, thanks again Lisa.  And as I mentioned in another post, I did not mean to step on anyone's toes or offend them in anyway.  

When I came into the UK as a visitor, just with my passport, I got detained for several hours before they decided they believed my (true) "story". We were just visiting each other frequently before we made the move. I was coming for 5 months, at the end of that visit we were deciding if we wanted to go for a fiancee visa. Anyway, I got detained and one of their sticking points was that I called him a "friend" and not a "boyfriend", and they got pissed off with me for being sneaky. But then again, they would have gotten pissed off with me had I said "boyfriend" up front. They very nearly didn't let me into the country. They searched me, detained me, held me in their cell thing, interviewed me many times, interviewd David who was waiting on the other end, made photcopies of my journal, addressbook, and all paperwork that I had, and searched my luggage more thoroughly than I could have imagined. It was awful. I got through in the end, but by the skin of my teeth and only because David was there and his story matched mine exactly, and he convinced them that he was paying for all my living expenses (they were worried I'd try to pick up a job illegally whilst here since I only came with $1000 for 5 months)... and for other reasons they wouldn't let me know.

I guess my point is that no one in your situation (which is one I've been in and many, many, many of us have as well) - has a clear cut route to follow. So much depends on the mood of the person at the Immigration desk. So much depends on what time of day it is, how the wind is blowing, what color underwear you're wearing. T the end of the day, it is their job to weed people out.

I'm not trying to be a jerk (and ooh I hope you don't think I am!) - I'm really just sharing my story and sharing my sympathy with you... it is a hard, hard, unclear position to be in with no easy answers. Because after everythings said and done, no matter who's advice you follow it ALL depends on that one person sitting at that one desk when you get off the plane.

David & I talk a lot about what we'd do if we were in the same situation again... living long-distance, not knowing if we wanted to marry yet, wanting to live with eachother first before deciding... and we don't know.

I *still* get grilled every time I go through UK immigration, despite the fact that I have a valid visa for living here. It's like my name was red-tagged or something, and they still don't believe me and think I'm trying to be sneaky. Sigh. But I do get through in the end.

In my personal opinion, and experience, even with the "less is more" approach you'll probably still get grilled each time you enter the UK just because the next officer will see exactly what other officers saw and expected - that you've got a boyfriend in the UK. And for reasons I can NOT fathom and that p*ss me off to this day, they don't like that.

Sorry if this post is frustrating to you, or if it seems like I'm being a jerk or too gloomy about it all, I guess I'm just trying to be a realist about it all and while wishing you the best best best, hoping that you understand that immigration does not facilitate people in situations like ours. Just so you know both ways this could all swing.

But I do wish you the HUGEST hopes of all, and all the well wishes in the world.

**And PS to everyone, I'm moving this post into the Immigration room because it seems appropriate for there, since it's a topic thats been addressed there many times in the past (and future).

I think you'll find that its a Visitor's Visa and not a "Tourist" Visa.

This visa is for an individual wishing to travel for a period of up to six months to the United Kingdom. Whether the trip is for 1 week or 5 months a visitor visa will be required.

Visitor visa holders are prohibited from working, paid or unpaid, during their visit in the United Kingdom.

All visitors to the United Kingdom, whether for business or social reasons, can only stay for six months. If you are given permission to stay for less than six months, you can apply to extend your stay in the United Kingdom for up to six months in total. People from certain nationalities are able to apply for different visas to extend a trip in the United Kingdom.

There are some basic requirements of the visa you must satisfy if you are to be considered for the business visitor visa to the United Kingdom.

On a visitor visa you can only undertake certain work related activities whilst in the United Kingdom

These are:

• you only want to visit the United Kingdom for up to six months;

• you plan to leave the United Kingdom at the end of your visit;

• you have enough money to support and accommodate yourself without working or help from public funds.

Visitor Visa Restrictions

You can do business in the United Kingdom either as a tourist or in connection with your work or business overseas.

You cannot;

• do paid or unpaid work;

• produce goods or provide services in the United Kingdom;

• sell goods and services to members of the public.

You can;

• go to meetings with United Kingdom businesses or negotiate and enter into contracts with them;

• go to trade fairs, conferences and classroom training;

• enter as a visitor if you are a sports person or entertainer coming to the United Kingdom for a trial or audition, or for a personal appearance which does not involve a performance.

(From this website: http://www.migrationexpert.com/uk/18-194.htm)

I agree that all you have to do is not say anything. Unlike many I did not stay for months on end.  Three to four weeks is all my schedule would allow. (Aside from the year I spent in Spain....) I have left and come back from the EU and the UK many times within the same year.  Maybe I just look innocent maybe I walk through like I belong there and have nothing to hide. I don't and did not.  I always have a return ticket and always have stuff like LisaE said planned.  Theater tickets (with boy friend but who cares) Name of the hotel I will be staying at my first night in London (where ever).  The only time I got questioned was when I was coming by ferry from France to the UK.  The guy eyed me up and down and wondered why I was coming back into the UK so soon (third time in a year) and I just told him that we had gone to visit France I was touring about the UK with my friend and that I was leaving in two weeks time to go back to the USA to finish my studies.  As long as you are leaving and they can't prove you are not and you have ties...what can they really do?

Like I said maybe it's just my attitude.  

Now had I done what Marlespo did  I might have had a similar situation.  They would tend to look at someone staying that long with a stricter lens.  

Good luck and hopefully you will not have any problems.

Excellent post ceamara! Right on the money!

*hugs* Marlespo...your experience still gauls me.

Krissy, no I don't feel ganged up on...I was primairly concerned that my words were being misunderstood. I wasn't clear when I should have been and it caused others to feel I was saying it was wrong to be staying with a boyfriend. Exactly the opposite of what I meant. (I majored in Journalism and I have this need to be understood/communication and all that. LOL!)

The kicker is, even though we are all doing everything that is completely above board and have no intention of violating any rules, Immigration doesn't know that. So they have to ask, and sometimes in ways that will try to trip people up. It's not an easy job.

If you are really worried, then bring proof with you such as your rental agreement, or wage slips from your US job. However, it's very unlikely they will ask for it.
I don't agree with saying 'friend' for boyfriend, but if they ask the 'purpose of your visit' you can truthfully say 'I am on holiday' and give them the adress you are staying at. If they give you a hard time you can show proof that you intend to return to the US, and explain that you understand all about UK fiancée and spousal visas (as I'm sure you do!) You could even quote the cost so they know you know! And then tell them you are not, however ready for that commitment yet, but you will visit your bf, (and he you in the US) until you decide to marry and where to live.
Like I said, you are most likely to just get asked 'business or pleasure' and you are NOT doing anything wrong! You are visiting on Visitor Visa, and as long as you do not spend more than 6 months in the UK in a year, you have every right to visit!
(Maybe your bf can meet you at the airport so they can always ask him any Qs they have about you).  

Hi there,

I'm new to this forum, but I have years of experience going back and forth to the UK (as a student for 4 years, and now as a fiance), so I thought I'd add my two cents

The last two times I entered the UK, I said I was just visiting. When asked who I was visiting, I said right upfront without hesitating that I was going to see my fiance. The first time, I did get a raised eyebrow, and was questioned further....at which time I whipped out my US lease, and a letter from my US employer saying I was taking a week paid vacation and was expected back at work on such-and-such a date, which corresponded with my return ticket. No further questions asked. The second time, the woman just smiled and said 'Oh, wonderful...enjoy your visit!' and sent me on my merry way.

And I do have to admit, my passport full of student visa stamps, student visa extensions, innumerable visit stamps, etc does indicate that I probably am an immigration risk (next time I return it will be with fiance visa in hand - so damn straight I'm an immigration risk!  ) But I've always gotten through by being very upfront and showing that I have ties back to the US. If you only divulge that you are going to visit your bf/fiance after much questioning, I believe it will look suspicious and deceptive, and might cause further problems.

Anyways, that's my input

-kate

i definetly agree with the "less is more" theory.  those immigration officers at the airport really don't need to know crap... our personal lives really don't concern them or the security of anyone's government or anything.  if we want to visit a loved one or go to Disney World, why should they care?    i mean... really!

but...
it really isn't a good idea to blatently lie to them ever.  

answer their questions, and be polite.  if it is a BF that you're visiting, then say its your BF.  there is nothing wrong or illegal with that.

Marlespo was just trying to be vague by calling her BF a "friend", but, to the authorities, it appeared that she was hiding something, being sketchy.   they get all worked up sometimes on that sort of thing.  none of us would like to have to go thru what she did that day at the airport... especially after a 6-10 hour flight across the Atlantic, when all we really want to do is find a place to nap.  that really sucks.

whenever i have been asked what the purpose of my visit was, i usually just said something like, "i'm here to spend Easter with my boyfriend and visit  some  friends..."

they could usually tell that i wasn't some crazy terrorist, and figured i was harmless, so they'd give me my stamp and send me thru.  besides, nowadays, they are generally looking for terrorists with bombs or fresh fruits and vegetables.  a woman visiting her boyfriend isn't much of concern to them most of the time.

as long as you aren't knowingly breaking any laws, you are really okay.  and unless you are planning a wedding during that visit, in the country that you are entering, or you are planning to move to a country... all that you need is the visitor's visa stamp at entry.  the visitor's visa is good for 6 months.

i guess, the important thing is to be calm and confident, smile, and be courteous.  if they ask something that catches you off-gaurd (which they are good at...) just stay calm, and answer as best you can.

i think that the smiling thing works pretty well...  when you walk up to them and hand them your passport, give them a big smile and a friendly "hiiiiiii" , and look them directly in their eyes.  this shows them that you're not intimidated or afraid...
it's basic psychology.

i sometimes pretended in my head that they were just curious flight attendants, not "Customs Officer #2307".  sort of like when you are speaking in public, and you try to picture the audience in their undies, so you feel less vunerable.  i try not to think of them as scary "officials", or cops, or whatever. the less intimidated you seem, the less questions they ask.  it's true!


i also think that saying that you are visiting your "Boyfriend" is waaaay better than saying a "friend" or "my fiancé"...
"friend" sounds like you are hiding something, and "fiancé" sounds like you may have the wrong visa.
"Boyfriend" is like baby bear's porridge...  just right...  

[color=ff33ff]don't be afraid... love conquers all...[/b][/color]

...as long as you aren't knowingly breaking any laws, you are really okay... the visitor's visa is good for 6 months.

You don't have to do anything illegal or wrong to be turned away at Immigration though, as peedal and lelandperrin can both attest to... which is depressing because all the preparation in the world oges down the drain if you get an Immigration officer who's having a bad day. :/

You don't have to do anything illegal or wrong to be turned away at Immigration though, as peedal and lelandperrin can both attest to... which is depressing because all the preparation in the world oges down the drain if you get an Immigration officer who's having a bad day. :/

i think people worry too much.  
(not directed in anyone in particular, or to Marlespo, whom i happened to quote.)


****************************************
here is a hypothetical situation for you all:

i am an American girl.  i am going to visit a man i love who lives in England.

i am not a terrorist.  i hold no criminal record.

i am not carrying anything illegal on my person, or in my baggage, or anything i need to "declare" in Customs.

i want to vacation with my boyfriend in England for 3 weeks, and after that time, i am returning home to America.

i am not looking to settle, to take up residency, in England.  i am also not going to be married while on this visit.

the purpose of this visit is to vacation. [/color]

so what is wrong with this?  should this girl be allowed entry clearance?

the answer is "yes".
******************************************


i admit that the immigration process/marriage to a foreigner, can be confusing, albeit overwhelming at times.  i experienced feelings of extreme worry when i went through it; always wondering if i had the "proper documentation", etc. when travelling.


do your research.  download and print any forms that you will need for each journey.  organise this paperwork, and put it in your carry-on luggage, so you have it readily available when and if its needed at Customs.  

yes, somedays there is the occasional Customs Officer who is just a prick...  (unfortunately, the world is an imperfect place).  but what i am saying, is be prepared, and don't make yourself all sick with worry about it.  if you do, you'll be standing there, at the Customs gate, all shaky and sweaty, looking nervous and sketchy, and that will increase your chances of being f***ed with.

DO EVERYTHING BY THE BOOK.  HAVE EVERYTHING THAT YOU NEED.  SMILE AND BE COURTEOUS.

...and everything should be okay.

you aren't the only person that has ever done this... and the end result will be worth it.
take the time to prepare in advance.   being well-informed of the both process and your rights builds your confidence level, and also helps speed up the process.




*****************************************
there are many sources for information available on the internet, this site, (UK Yankee), being the best one i have found for support.  

i'd like to share a couple of links with all of you...  you might consider bookmarking these...
(please click on the following descriptions to open the page in a new window.)



This is an amazing source of information... Pretty much everything you need to know about moving from the US to the UK, visas, moving your belongings, driver's licenses, voting... etc!!!  lots of useful links, advice, and FAQs... the site was last updated in 2001, so the legal info may be different, but the links to the gov't agencies should still be valid...  also great planning info.



This is a FAQ for US citizens to aid in gaining entry to the UK, primarily for those obtaining a fiance(e) visa or a settlement visa based on marriage to a UK permanent resident or UK citizen; and/or permanent residency based on marriage and/or citizenship based on marriage.

[size=9] [shadow=red,left,600]  KNOWLEDGE IS POWER!!! [/shadow][/b]

[/color][/size]

Um, I had all the knowledge one could possibly garner - I even had the benefit of "learning" from Marlespo's experience as she had gone before me.  And I STILL got refused entry.  And I was doing nothing wrong, nothing illegal and was as calm and collected as one can be after an overnight flight on a crowded plane with two children...

As Marlespo said, all it takes is an Immigration Officer (or in my case a supervisor who doesn't even speak to you personally) who is having a bad day...

Um, I had all the knowledge one could possibly garner - I even had the benefit of "learning" from Marlespo's experience as she had gone before me.  And I STILL got refused entry.  And I was doing nothing wrong, nothing illegal and was as calm and collected as one can be after an overnight flight on a crowded plane with two children...

As Marlespo said, all it takes is an Immigration Officer (or in my case a supervisor who doesn't even speak to you personally) who is having a bad day...

what was their reason for refusing you entry?



.

I think it often depends on the person you get on the day. Obviously on a British passport I haven't had too much to do with British immigration at the airport but believe it or not on re-entering the country from a business trip to Africa I was asked by the girl on the desk at the British passport holders queue where I had been and why. I think she was just bored.

My advice: just be honest - remember even if you're doing everything by the book if it appears you have given false or misleading info that in itself could lead to you being refused entry.

The reason I was given was simply that the supervisor who didn't even speak to me didn't believe I wasn't here to get married and settle without the proper Visa.  Even though the Immigration Officer who did conduct the interviews with myself and Phil did believe we were doing everything right.  She was pretty much close to tears herself when she had to tell me that our entry was denied and we had 7 days to leave the country...

The U.S and the U.K both participate in the Visa Waiver Program as everyone knows. The U.S states that visitors MAY be allowed to enter for up to 90 days- the U.K states visitors MAY be allowed to enter up to 6 months. The key operative word is MAY. This one little word seems to cause a lot of problems on both sides and is subjective and very unfair sometimes. Over the years I've seen people turned away on both sides simply because it is subjective and they've happened to get a particular immigration officer with a stick up his (or her)a**e on that particular day. How much money you have, your reason for visiting, the frequency of those visits, etc. etc. sometimes have absolutely nothing to do with it. The fact of the matter is, that if you attempt to enter either country without some type of visa then youre subjecting yourself to an on-the-spot decision made by someone who for whatever reason has decided that theyre either buying or not buying your reason for being there and it's within their authority to either grant entry or not. With a visa, someone in authority has already done that and taken that decision out of their hands, in other words, theyre 99% of the time satisfied that you've been pre-screened although a visa in itself is not a guarantee that you STILL won't be scrutinized. Its a bummer I know, but it's the way the system works.