New ILR Stamp

My son who is 15 and has ILR is now residing in the US with this father.  Things haven't worked out and there is the possibility that he will need to return to live in the UK with me.  He has been out of the UK for less than a year.

The problem is that his passport has expired.  I called the State Department who told me that when we renew his passport that he will get not only his new passport, but his old passport as well, which contains his ILR stamp.

Will I need to have another stamp on his new passport?  Or can he travel with both passports, one of which shows his right to residency in the UK?  If I have to get a new stamp for his new passport, does anyone know the fees involved or forms.  I've had a look around the New York Consulate General's website, but haven't found the answers to this particular question.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Update
I just found this on another website.  If you look under 'Do I need a visa?', it seems to suggest that he can travel with both old and new passport.  I still feel ify about this because what happens if he gets a grumpy immigration officer at Heathrow?  If they put him on a plane back to the US, there would be no one there to claim him.

Yes, you can do this.  I've actually travelled with my old stamped passport and my new passport.  When I went through immigration, they just stamped my new passport.  

Thank you, Mindy.  I'm feeling much better about this now.  Cheers!

I'm the sort that likes things neat and tidy. I don't look forward to the day my US passport expires only because I don't really want to go through the whole mess of showing both passports. But yes, you do need to show both if the stamp is in the other passport.

I'm contemplating going through the paperwork of having another stamp put in my new one...but I still have about four more years to make up my mind on that one.

I'm the sort that likes things neat and tidy. I don't look forward to the day my US passport expires only because I don't really want to go through the whole mess of showing both passports. But yes, you do need to show both if the stamp is in the other passport.

I'm contemplating going through the paperwork of having another stamp put in my new one...but I still have about four more years to make up my mind on that one.

Ok, maybe I'm ignorant on this one, but now that you are a UK citizen (as well as a US citizen) and have a UK passport (as well as a US one, obviously), why would you need an ILR stamp in your US passport?  Wouldn't it be a bit obsolete?

I'd thought about it so much in the past (getting the new passport stamped) that I hadn't thought that one through for current circs! LOL!

I will continue to use my US passport to enter the US and they certainly shouldn't question me being able to come in. I'll use the British one to enter the UK...likewise reasoning. I dunno, don't know why I felt an extra security having the stamp in the current passport...it really doesn't make sense! LOL!

Just a little update in case anyone runs into this problem in the future.  Speaking with IND today, they said that he can enter the UK as Mindy described, but there is a chance that he will be heavily questioned at immigration.

Also, there is no way in which to transfer your ILR stamp to a new passport outside of the United Kingdom.  It can only be done here.

I'd thought about it so much in the past (getting the new passport stamped) that I hadn't thought that one through for current circs! LOL!

I will continue to use my US passport to enter the US and they certainly shouldn't question me being able to come in. I'll use the British one to enter the UK...likewise reasoning. I dunno, don't know why I felt an extra security having the stamp in the current passport...it really doesn't make sense! LOL!

LOL  The old way of planning it out dies hard!  Don't sell yourself short, lady!  You've got the best of both now!

I will continue to use my US passport to enter the US and they certainly shouldn't question me being able to come in. I'll use the British one to enter the UK...likewise reasoning. I dunno, don't know why I felt an extra security having the stamp in the current passport...it really doesn't make sense! LOL!

Just be careful when carrying around two passports from different countries. As I understand it, it can look suspicious and I read somewhere that you're recommended to use just one.

:-/ That does make sense, Ashley. I suppose once I tell my situation, all will be clear to the Immigration officer. Isn't there someone who posts here and has three passports? Would be interesting to hear his experience. My first "run" will be in a few days.

Just be careful when carrying around two passports from different countries. As I understand it, it can look suspicious and I read somewhere that you're recommended to use just one.

It's best to only show the passport that you're going to be using when you arrive at your destination. So, when going to the US, show the airline your US passport. When returning from the US, however, it doesn't make much difference, as you can show Immigration at Heathrow your UK passport without much difficulty even if the airline saw your US passport when leaving the US.

An example of when it's a bad idea to show your non-destination passport is the woman who was born in the People's Republic of China but who had become a Canadian citizen upon emigration. The PRC does not allow dual citizenship, so she should have turned in her passport when she was naturalised. However, she didn't do that and continued to use it when traveling to China. She got in a flap with Chinese immigration officials on one such trip and pulled out her Canadian passport to demand better treatment. Instead she got arrested for illegally claiming to be a Chinese citizen.

While you cannot use your UK passport to enter the US if you're a dual US/UK citizen, you should own up to being one if they ask. I've been asked by US immigration officials what I do in London, how long I've been here, and what my status here is. There is nothing illegal in being a dual citizen and you should own up to it if that's true.

Cheers!

Chris Hansen
http://www.hansenhome.demon.co.uk

Okay - but what if one doesn't have any desire to be *treated like a US citizen* - i.e., possibly different from their UK spouse - whilst in the US?

Okay - but what if one doesn't have any desire to be *treated like a US citizen* - i.e., possibly different from their UK spouse - whilst in the US?

I don't think it's a matter of not having any desire to be treated like a US citizen--you in fact are a US citizen, and subject to US law, especially when entering, leaving, or actually in the US. The law says that you must possess a US passport at all times when out of the US, and that you must present it when entering the US. Now if you present your UK passport, if you're like me a native-born US citizen, your place of birth will be "Massachusetts" or "Nebraska" or whatever. The immigration officer will be concerned that you have not presented your US passport and will probably query you about it. It's within the right of the immigration officer to charge you an administration fee (read: fine) of $100. They don't now often do this (I'm told; I have no experience of this). However, the option is there.

Now, all this being said, immigration is stressful enough (I know; I had to go through it twice within a week or two last year when I visited my dad in November then returned for his funeral a few days after I returned to the UK). If the dual-US/UK-citizen traveler wants to present his or her UK passport at immigration in the US, this would be quite within his or her rights. It is not a stress-free operation and there is the risk in these troubled times that the immigration officer will think you need special attention during immigration. If the traveler is willing to risk this, I suppose that's OK.

Finally, I believe that in some cases US citizens traveling with their foreign-citizen spouses or children can accompany them through the US immigration channels. I am not sure of this, and the best way of finding out would be to call the US Embassy or perhaps look at the USDHS website (although a quick troll through thas hasn't unearthed anything relevant).

Cheers

Chris Hansen
http://www.hansenhome.demon.co.uk

My point is that in these troubled times, what whilst in the US visiting, the US gov't decides that all "foreign visitors" have to go and all US citizens have to stay?  If I've entered as a US citizen and my husband has entered on his UK passport...

I know I'm sounding paranoid.  But did anyone really think 3 years ago that we'd be where we are now security-wise?

Of course, this is all hypothetical because my kids and I aren't eligible for UK passports until Sept of 2005...and the first place I'm thinking of visiting on it is Cuba!

My point is that in these troubled times, what whilst in the US visiting, the US gov't decides that all "foreign visitors" have to go and all US citizens have to stay?  If I've entered as a US citizen and my husband has entered on his UK passport...

I know I'm sounding paranoid.  But did anyone really think 3 years ago that we'd be where we are now security-wise?

Of course, this is all hypothetical because my kids and I aren't eligible for UK passports until Sept of 2005...and the first place I'm thinking of visiting on it is Cuba!

The cardinal principle of holding dual nationality is that the dual national is subject to all the laws of both countries. So, for example, I, as a US/UK dual national, am subject to the US law requiring me as a citizen to file a tax return each year, whether I'm living and working in the US or not. This holds true whether I live in the UK or in Antarctica.

Equally, if I were to go to live in the US, I would be subject to various UK laws that apply to UK citizens wherever they are (a law banning bribery of foreign governments to get contracts, for example).

So, when you are in the US, whether you have entered as a US citizen, or a UK citizen, you are still subject to US laws. The law says that you must present your US passport when you enter the US. If a law is later passed that US citizens may not travel abroad and that all non-US citizens must be deported from the US, you'll be subject to that law too, as will your spouse and children.

There are two ways of getting around this. First, you could renounce your US citizenship. As long as you are not likely to want to live in the US as a US citizen again, that would serve your purpose. It might make for a few more questions at the border were you to travel in the US (Why did you renounce your citizenship? What's your tax status? are two examples I can think of.) but you would then be a non-US person and subject to any strictures that might be placed on your husband and children.

The second way is to gain US citizenship for your husband. This would probably involve going back to the US for a while and applying for a green card for him at the Embassy here (I don't know the exact procedure as my partner is not eligible for this so I haven't paid much attention.)

I agree that almost anything is possible, but I think that laws such as the ones you suggest would be most unlikely to be passed (even by the paranoid people currently inhabiting Washington) and even more unlikely to stand up in court.

Cheers!

Chris Hansen
http://www.hansenhome.demon.co.uk