Nationality

I'm new here, and I have noticed a great tendancy to use the terms British and English synonymously.

As a matter of clarification England is just part of the UK (United Kingdom of Great Britian and Northern Ireland).
The Welsh, the Irish (from NI) and the Scots are British too, and they generally don't take very kindly to being considered English.

Thank you for your input.....Although I believe that most of the people who are regularly on this forum (if you take the trouble to look back into the archives) are well aware of these facts.

BTW, not too sure in what context you're saying these things.  Could you clarify to what you're refering to for us please?

Thank you for your input.....Although I believe that most of the people who are regularly on this forum (if you take the trouble to look back into the archives) are well aware of these facts.

BTW, not too sure in what context you're saying these things.  Could you clarify to what you're refering to for us please?

Thank you kindly for your reply.
Well, let me give you a couple of references to support my point.

"….another blood-thirsty English past-time " – this in reference to Rugby which of course is also played in Scotland, Wales and Ireland but it was clear from the context that the poster really meant UK

And I wonder who posted "The life of an English spouse houser!" ?


And how about:
Re: Most famous English person
"Just the one that you think is the one which you would say defines the english person.  Sorry it was all the Stephen Fry talk  I think that he could be thought of as the quintescencual Englishman."

So when you were living in the States who did you think was the Englishman's Englishman:


?« Reply #15 on: Dec 10th, 2003, 5:50pm »      
Anthony Hopkins, Tom Jones, Princess Diana, Fergie.

Note that neither of the first two mentioned, Anthony Hopkins and Tom Jones, are are actually English

Now who posted this topic

And coincidentally or otherwise, the title of the post has, in the last few hours, been changed from English to British.........wonder who could possibly have resorted to doing that ?

And a shame that whoever changed it didn't have the wit to realise that all the responses still refer to the original title.

I can see this forum being a lot of fun..........

The Welsh, the Irish (from NI) and the Scots are British too, and they generally don't take very kindly to being considered English.

Interesting.....but the Welsh, Irish (from NI) and the Scots that I know don't take very kindly to being considered anything but what they actually are...Welsh, Irish and Scottish.

"….another blood-thirsty English past-time " – this in reference to Rugby which of course is also played in Scotland, Wales and Ireland but it was clear from the context that the poster really meant UK..........

Let me thank you for your reply.  

Your first reference is a little moot, as it was specifically England that was mentioned, you could easily include all other nations here who play rugby at all. So I would say that this point is an empty one.

"….And I wonder who posted "The life of an English spouse houser!" ?

This second point again is a little obvious if thought about.  I (Nefandous) posted this thread, I am English and it was about me specifically.  I'm not going to post something that's general in the title when it's about something specific.

"….And how about:
Re: Most famous English person
"Just the one that you think is the one which you would say defines the most english english person." was how it was put if I remember correctly.

Well if you read what was said you would know.  But I digress, I originally posted this thread again. and it was as specified.  Who's is and was the most English of English people in everyone's opinion.  

Once again, if you read what was said and the dates when it was said, you will see that it turned into something more than the topic was set to be; meaning it developed into a general discussion about who people's favourite British people were.

"….?« Reply #15 on: Dec 10th, 2003, 5:50pm »      
Anthony Hopkins, Tom Jones, Princess Diana, Fergie

Note that neither of the first two mentioned, Anthony Hopkins and Tom Jones, are are actually English

Now who posted this topic

Yes, I did know these people are not English.  But please note that I'm not going to change and badger people when they make a simple mistake of posting about favourite British people rather than favourite English people.  My mind is not so closed that I don't have any room to mention other great entertainers from Britian on my board.

"….And coincidentally or otherwise, the title of the post has, in the last few hours, been changed from English to British.........wonder who could possibly have resorted to doing that ?

LOL do you really think it was a coincidence?  Surprise!  I resorted to changing it because I saw a possibility that you would misunderstand completely what this particular topic was about. And just to try and nip the idea in the bud that our forum was anything other than fair I changed it so that it would incorperate the whole of every man woman and child who are within the British empire

"….And a shame that whoever changed it didn't have the wit to realise that all the responses still refer to the original title.

On this last point, I believe you're just trying to be insulting and troll-like, so I shall not bother to answer this.   Except to say that it was just an attempt to show you that we care, which in my opinion will probably fall on deaf eyes.

Nefandous
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I had no wish to cause offence.

Your initial response was to counter mine. It was to the effect that I was wrong. I respect that opinion, but I don't share it.  I made a post to support my opinion. I’m sorry you didn’t like it – you made that abundantly clear. Yet you go on to say you won’t badger people for making a simple mistake…..
As for changing the title of the Most Famous English…to British. Your text was clearly referring to English (I think you mentioned quintessentially English). What misunderstanding could there possibly be that you were seeking to address ?
I see nothing unfair about a question relating just to famous English people but if your post was intended to encompass all British people as you now say and you entitled it ….famous English” then  one could be excused for thinking that you used “English” to mean British………..which was precisely the point I initially made.

Oh for the love of Mike.  You must be alot of fun playing trivial pursuit with.  And anyway the original post was about who Americans percieve as the quintessentially English person and unfortunately alot of Americans make that very mistake.  So splitting hairs about something like where Tony Blair was born seems abit silly to me-especially as he does come across as pretty darn English.  
On a further note,  I would try not to let it bother you that people confuse English/British.  Most of us live in England and it's a pretty simple mistake to make and one that alot of my English friends and co-workers make as well.  

Oh for the love of Mike... 

LMAO Mindy.....my mother used to invoke his name on occasion along with his brother Pete, but you knew she was really angry when she called on the big guy himself......Jesus!

Oh for the love of Mike.  You must be alot of fun playing trivial pursuit with.  And anyway the original post was about who Americans percieve as the quintessentially English person and unfortunately alot of Americans make that very mistake.  So splitting hairs about something like where Tony Blair was born seems abit silly to me-especially as he does come across as pretty darn English.  
On a further note,  I would try not to let it bother you that people confuse English/British.  Most of us live in England and it's a pretty simple mistake to make and one that alot of my English friends and co-workers make as well.  

Hello. Thank you for replying.
You seem to confirm what I originally posted - British and English are used synonymously. It doesn't upset me.
I KNOW many people make that simple mistake. That's why I was offering a clarification.

But it seems that our moderator, Nefandous, thinks differently.

Hello. Thank you for replying.
You seem to confirm what I originally posted - British and English are used synonymously. It doesn't upset me.
I KNOW many people make that simple mistake. That's why I was offering a clarification.

But it seems that our moderator, Nefandous, thinks differently.

No, I think it was more a case of that you'd made your point-there's no reason to keep hammering it home.  Afterall, that thread was just a bit of fun.  It would have made it very unpleasant, very quickly if everytime someone made a mistake and listed a non-English person, Nefandous, as moderator had to jump in and tell them off for naming a Scottish, Welsh, or Irish person.  Do you get what I'm saying.  
This is a friendly board and we welcome you and your wife.  We really hope we can offer advise, friendship, and comradery.  But the thing is-some of us misspell words and some of us use terrible grammar and unfortunately some of us occasionally say England when we mean Britian.  If other people corrected us everytime we spoke it would not stay a friendly board.  
Another thing to consider is this.  Many of us  are Americans living in Great Britian.  Every day of our lives we have people pointing out what they percieve as our misuse of the English language.  This happens at home, work, shopping.  This website, for many, offers a safe haven, a place where we can say Jello when we mean jelly and not have someone jump down our throat.  
We don't need clarifications or corrections.  We know what we're trying to say-and so do most people listening/reading.  Please join our community but I'm afraid that if you're going to feel the need to 'set us right' continually then neither you nor we will have a very good time.  

No, I think it was more a case of that you'd made your point-there's no reason to keep hammering it home.  Afterall, that thread was just a bit of fun.  It would have made it very unpleasant, very quickly if everytime someone made a mistake and listed a non-English person, Nefandous, as moderator had to jump in and tell them off for naming a Scottish, Welsh, or Irish person.  Do you get what I'm saying.  
This is a friendly board and we welcome you and your wife.  We really hope we can offer advise, friendship, and comradery.  But the thing is-some of us misspell words and some of us use terrible grammar and unfortunately some of us occasionally say England when we mean Britian.  If other people corrected us everytime we spoke it would not stay a friendly board.  
Another thing to consider is this.  Many of us  are Americans living in Great Britian.  Every day of our lives we have people pointing out what they percieve as our misuse of the English language.  This happens at home, work, shopping.  This website, for many, offers a safe haven, a place where we can say Jello when we mean jelly and not have someone jump down our throat.  
We don't need clarifications or corrections.  We know what we're trying to say-and so do most people listening/reading.  Please join our community but I'm afraid that if you're going to feel the need to 'set us right' continually then neither you nor we will have a very good time.  

Friendly indeed. My original point was that the terms British and English synonymously.  This, from your post, you evidently agree with. Yet the substance and tone of your reply makes it seem like an argument.

Why can't we just accept that we agree and stay on friendly terms ?

Hey Cascode why not just give it a rest huh ....do you wanna be friendly or do you wanna be right? Your smarmy replies are'nt endearing you to anyone and your little known facts are'nt that impressive either. Obviously you think you've stumbled into a group that needs your corrective tone. You've been offered a welcome more than a few times on this board and aside from your facetious replies have offered none of it in return. Do you want a gold star for pointing out innocent errors?........OK........here's your star.......have a great day.

Believe it or not, that was friendly advise.  Yes, I agree that people make that mistake but NO I do not think it's worth labouring the point.  As my good friend CeltictotheCore says 'Just let it go'.   Oh and have a nice day.

Nefandous
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I had no wish to cause offence.

No? Then why the choice of wording in your response if not argumentative?  Or was it merely duplicitous or provocative?

Your initial response was to counter mine.

That's inaccuarate I'm sure you'll agree, reading back what I asked was

not too sure in what context you're saying these things.  Could you clarify to what you're refering to for us please?

which was a request for information to your post.

It was to the effect that I was wrong. I respect that opinion, but I don't share it.  I made a post to support my opinion. I’m sorry you didn’t like it – you made that abundantly clear. Yet you go on to say you won’t badger people for making a simple mistake…..

It was to the effect of understanding your point of view, which you have yet to tell us except that you like to have an argument about very little.  I wanted a discussion.  I'm sure if you go back and read all that's written, and possibly have a look at some old postings from various members that all people's points of view that this forum is free and fair to all that have come onto it.  However, if someone comes into the forum without introduction, without any feined respected for any of it's members generally the person is treated with the same distain in return. "Treat those as you wish to be treated." on this board if not on all boards.

Moreover there is an etiquette that should be followed if you want anything you say to be taken with any kind of respect that most visiters to this forum have complied with.  Hopefully you will give us the honour of an introduction and perhaps you will also help us to understand your gripes and/or hang-ups about certain "issues".  And perhaps you may think about whether you're the first to bring such issues up.

As for changing the title of the Most Famous English…to British. Your text was clearly referring to English (I think you mentioned quintessentially English). What misunderstanding could there possibly be that you were seeking to address ?

lol

Well the fact that other people who posted after me made this particular heading irrelevant.  I did indeed mention quintessentially English, and being observant I know that you noticed that i only mentioned English people.  However, this was followed with peoples posts who were most definitely not in the least English, therefore making the original title irrelevant.  

If you don't understand my motivation then we can take this over into pettifog, where perhaps I should have put it as soon as I saw your question arise.

I see nothing unfair about a question relating just to famous English people but if your post was intended to encompass all British people as you now say and you entitled it ….famous English” then  one could be excused for thinking that you used “English” to mean British………..which was precisely the point I initially made.

There's quite a large hole in your logic here.  That is that you're thinking that the whole thread sprang from nowhere and was all on the one subject.  This is one of the reasons I suggested that you read from the forum in more depth.  Then you would see that no matter the subject, they can get diverted onto other topics.  Yes, even from English celebrities to British celebrities and just at anyone's whim.  As these two subjects are so close I found no need to change them into two catagories.  To me, I'm not so pedantic that I wish to submit every little line to an enquiry.

Your initial point was *are "we" on the forum using English to mean British and visa versa* or the equivalent. No, is the reply, not unless the individual wants to ...so you'll have to ask each of us individually to find out exactly who wants to use each as a synonym for the other.

- And by the way, I did want to make this a friendly and amicable discussion, but due to your choice of words in your reply.  I decided that maybe a hint of sarcasm was required, as it seemed to me, and still seems to me that you're just continually *discussing* for arguements sake.

No? Then why the choice of wording in your response if not argumentative?  Or was it merely duplicitous or provocative?



That's inaccuarate I'm sure you'll agree, reading back what I asked was
which was a request for information to your post.


It was to the effect of understanding your point of view, which you have yet to tell us except that you like to have an argument about very little.  I wanted a discussion.  I'm sure if you go back and read all that's written, and possibly have a look at some old postings from various members that all people's points of view that this forum is free and fair to all that have come onto it.  However, if someone comes into the forum without introduction, without any feined respected for any of it's members generally the person is treated with the same distain in return. "Treat those as you wish to be treated." on this board if not on all boards.

Moreover there is an etiquette that should be followed if you want anything you say to be taken with any kind of respect that most visiters to this forum have complied with.  Hopefully you will give us the honour of an introduction and perhaps you will also help us to understand your gripes and/or hang-ups about certain "issues".  And perhaps you may think about whether you're the first to bring such issues up.


lol

Well the fact that other people who posted after me made this particular heading irrelevant.  I did indeed mention quintessentially English, and being observant I know that you noticed that i only mentioned English people.  However, this was followed with peoples posts who were most definitely not in the least English, therefore making the original title irrelevant.  

If you don't understand my motivation then we can take this over into pettifog, where perhaps I should have put it as soon as I saw your question arise.


There's quite a large hole in your logic here.  That is that you're thinking that the whole thread sprang from nowhere and was all on the one subject.  This is one of the reasons I suggested that you read from the forum in more depth.  Then you would see that no matter the subject, they can get diverted onto other topics.  Yes, even from English celebrities to British celebrities and just at anyone's whim.  As these two subjects are so close I found no need to change them into two catagories.  To me, I'm not so pedantic that I wish to submit every little line to an enquiry.

Your initial point was *are "we" on the forum using English to mean British and visa versa* or the equivalent. No, is the reply, not unless the individual wants to ...so you'll have to ask each of us individually to find out exactly who wants to use each as a synonym for the other.

- And by the way, I did want to make this a friendly and amicable discussion, but due to your choice of words in your reply.  I decided that maybe a hint of sarcasm was required, as it seemed to me, and still seems to me that you're just continually *discussing* for arguements sake.

"To me, I'm not so pedantic that I wish to submit every little line to an enquiry. "

Fair enough. I appreciate you lengthy friendly post.