Premarital Counseling?

Two months before our wedding and the Reverand (who we'd only had a verbal agreement with) pulled out because he said he couldn't marry us if we didn't do some premarital counseling. Does anyone else find this extremely rude? I mean, it's my wedding and my relationship, we're adults and can make our own decision, we shouldn't have to be forced into doing something that we don't believe in just to have him as our Reverand.

His reasoning was that if we didn't get the counseling, our marriage would be less likely to survive and therefore he couldn't be responsible for marrying us. Basically he was telling me that he thinks our marriage will end in divorce. And this was after 10 minutes of talking to me on the phone (he had spoken to my mom prior to that since I was in england).... first off, he doesn't know me or my fiance and certainly doesn't know our relationship... how dare he make such general assumptions without even considering getting to know us first?!

Secondly, he even said "most people jump at the chance for counseling".... well, I'm not most people and neither is my fiance! Most people can do whatever they like - if they want premarital counseling that's great for them... but neither my fiance or I believe that speaking to a stranger for around 2 weeks about our relationship is going to have a significant enough effect that it will make or break our marriage! We just don't feel it's right for us. But no, he couldn't respect that. His attitude was very rude and judgemental. I just can't stand when people take the "it's my way or the highway" attitude. So I took the highway! lol.

On top of that, prior to this, when I told him my fiance was Catholic he sounded really bias against Catholism. I'm not a huge fan of it either but it was like he was judging my fiance for it when he's never even spoken to him, much less met him. So I wasn't surprised he found some other reason to pull out of the wedding.

But I was just so angry that he pulled out NOW over a reason I don't think he has the right to make a decision on. If he had warned my mom the 5 months ago that she contacted him that he wouldn't agree to it unless we had premartial counseling then I wouldn't be so bothered... but to do so NOW, two months before the wedding?! It took all my effort not to scream at him.

Anyways, I've been stressed out about all the wedding planning to begin with and now this... it was the cracking point lol... as soon as I got off the phone I started bawling.

I'm sorry you're so stressed out.  Try not to take it personally, though.  I know in some religions it is the norm to have several sessions of premarital counseling before the wedding is actually performed.  I have a close friend and former coworker who is a deacon in the Catholic church, and he offers premarital counseling.  It certainly doesn't mean he thinks those relationships are doomed to failure, though.  He mainly discusses the bride and grooms beliefs, communication styles, views on money/children/other potentially 'touchy' subjects that can be at the root of marital strife.  His thinking is that if these topics can be discussed up front, it actually strengthens the relationship and makes is more likely that the husband and wife will be able to remain close no matter what life throws at them.  I think the view on premarital counseling probably varies from parish to parish, depending on how strict the reverend/priest is.  I hope you can either come to some sort of agreement with the reverend or find someone else who can perform the ceremony for you.  Good luck!

We were married by a Presbyterian minister and he would not perform the ceremony without meeting with us for premarital counseling.  He reduced the number of times we'd have to meet since my husband wasn't in the country.  I don't think it is that unusual or out of bounds for religious officiants to require counseling.  (And the counseling we did wasn't psychiatry-type counseling, it was talking about major issues, like crabbit.expat said.)

I'm sorry you're so stressed out.  Try not to take it personally, though.  I know in some religions it is the norm to have several sessions of premarital counseling before the wedding is actually performed. 

Yeah, I suppose that's just one of the many reasons I've never been a fan of organized religions.

It certainly doesn't mean he thinks those relationships are doomed to failure, though.

No you're right, but he was definitely saying that we were less likely to succeed and therefore he couldn't be responsible for taking the risk of marrying us. Those were pretty much his exact words. I just don't see how I could not take offense to something like that, you know?

  He mainly discusses the bride and grooms beliefs, communication styles, views on money/children/other potentially 'touchy' subjects that can be at the root of marital strife.  His thinking is that if these topics can be discussed up front, it actually strengthens the relationship and makes is more likely that the husband and wife will be able to remain close no matter what life throws at them. 

I understand that but the problem I have with his reasoning is that he dosn't know us and he has know idea that we discuss these types of things on our own to begin with and have worked through our differences in those common and "touchy" areas. If we hadn't done those types of things to begin with on our own, why would we even be considering getting married? The idea of marrying someone who I have not come to terms with on common touchy areas of relationships is just silly to me. So for him to automatically assume that we haven't done so or that we need it from some stranger is just plain rude because it's judgemental in my opinion. I don't think it's his place to tell us what he thinks we should do when he doesn't even know us, regardless of whether it's a common requirement or not. We're very open and communicative with each other, not to mention our relationship has been tested by some trials that I don't think most couples would have survived so if we can come through that even stronger and happier because of our communication and devotion to making it work no matter what, I think we'll be able to get through any hardships that we face in the future. But he didn't even care to find out those kind of things about us - all he heard was "Catholic" and "no premarital couseling" and pulled out after 10 minutes of talking to me.

I think the view on premarital counseling probably varies from parish to parish, depending on how strict the reverend/priest is.  I hope you can either come to some sort of agreement with the reverend or find someone else who can perform the ceremony for you.  Good luck!

Thanks, luckily I have found organizations of officiants across a few states which are very clear about not only making this my wedding and my decisions but also that they do not require premarital counseling. I've gotten a couple email replies back saying someone from their organization is available for our date so it's looking good! But when I cracked because of the original premarital counseling thing, it was more because of everything building up to a boiling point... after that happened, I went to have a sandwhich and found only once slice of bread and burst into tears again LOL. On top of that, the internet was down that day so I couldn't really contact my fiance to get his emotional support (because he's in england right now)... so it was just a bad day lol. These are actually my rational thoughts after having a couple days to calm down - you should have seen me that day, I was fuming and sobbing at the same time lol.

Oh and when I finally did get in touch with my fiance and told him what happened, he was furious - he seriously wanted me to give him the Reverand's number or email so he could give him a piece of his mind lol. I think he was mostly angry that the guy had upset me though.

Ya know what's funny is when my mom first got married the priest told her the same thing. Her and her husband (now ex) had to go through Pre-Marital counseling. They had a catholic wedding...

Your Reverand is wrong I don't think pre-marital counseling has anything to do with the success of a marriage. Prime example ^^^ it's all about the people involved and how devoted they are to the relationship and inlove they are not the fact that you sat around discussing your beliefs and views on children and how to bring them up. Most couples who decide to get married discuss those things anyway

I'm sorry you are stressed out, you don't want him to marry you anyway if he doesn't believe you'll make it. Find another one who is happy to marry you and your honey.

If you want to be married in a church, you'll most likely have to have some pre-marital counseling.  IMO, you're seriously overreacting.  Why wouldn't you want to sit down and talk with your fiance about major issues that arise in every marriage?  If you find there's a serious disagreement, a neutral 3rd party can help you come to some kind of an agreement. 

I've never seen anyone get all bent over counseling before.  If you don't like organized religion or belong to a particular congregation, why do you want a pastor to marry you anyway?

It's your wedding....do whatever the heck you want.

I understand that but the problem I have with his reasoning is that he dosn't know us and he has know idea that we discuss these types of things on our own to begin with and have worked through our differences in those common and "touchy" areas. If we hadn't done those types of things to begin with on our own, why would we even be considering getting married?

You'd be surprised how many people get married w/out having truly sorted these things out.  (Myself included, unfortunately... )

I obviously wasn't party to your conversation w/the reverend, so it may be totally reasonable for you to be upset w/him.  I was only pointing out that my friend who offers premarital counseling in one of the local Catholic parishes certainly never presumed that those who married w/out counseling were doomed to either unhappy marriages or divorce.  It's simply a tool that he believes strengthens the bond between the prospective bride and groom.  The religion that I belong to does not require premarital counseling so I have no first hand knowledge of its effectiveness.

It's your wedding....do whatever the heck you want.

I agree w/this.  Sounds like you feel very strongly about the premarital counseling issue, so you're right to find an alternative.  Good luck w/the wedding plans, and happy nuptials!

I wouldn't take it personally, I think a lot of religions require this, but he should have certainly told you before now.  We had to do it, but we're Catholic so it's definitely required.  Going into it, I dreaded it!!!  I'm not a fan of someone telling me what's right and wrong about birth control, etc., but it honestly had nothing to do with that.  I also thought we'd get lectured for living together before marriage, but we didn't.  We had several sessions, including a 6 hour group class, and it actually turned out really fun.  My fiance and I learned new things about each other and most importantly, found out we were on the same page about 95% of things.  It definitely wasn't what I expected when you think "pre-marriage counseling."

The vicar required counselling prior to our CoE wedding too.  It seems to be the done thing in many Christian denominations.  If you aren't keen on it, you may have to find another denomination or opt for registry office wedding.

BTW, our counselling wasn't done by the vicar that married us.  Because I was arriving so close to the time of the wedding, he wouldn't have been able to do it.  So we had it done by preacher in the US whilst my husband was over on hols.  Neither of us knew this preacher, we had a chat about our relationship and the preacher wrote a letter to vicar saying he had performed counselling, and it was done and dusted within 90 minutes.

I wasn't keen on the whole counselling thing either, but in the end it got me what I wanted so I did it.

We had a Cof E wedding, too, and we were politely urged to attend the one day counseling session (with other couples!). Neither of us were keen but we did and it was actually fine. Well, not really our cup of tea but it was not invasive or pushy.

If you want to be married in a church, you'll most likely have to have some pre-marital counseling. IMO, you're seriously overreacting. Why wouldn't you want to sit down and talk with your fiance about major issues that arise in every marriage? If you find there's a serious disagreement, a neutral 3rd party can help you come to some kind of an agreement.

I've never seen anyone get all bent over counseling before. If you don't like organized religion or belong to a particular congregation, why do you want a pastor to marry you anyway?

And Kristi, I'm sorry but your statement was OTT. If you aren't familiar with churches, then the idea of counseling by them is a bit scary. I could have cared less if my husband and I married in the church but HE wanted to and cared more about it than I did. Obviously USMancgirl has had a similar thing with her DF.

I am not Catholic (non-denominational) and this is quite normal in the church I grew up in.  It's viewed that if you are going to be having your marriage done by the preacher, priest, vicar, etc... that you want to have a christian marriage and therefore to make sure that this is something the both of you agree on.  I agree with crabbit, though, a lot of people go into a marriage barely touching on issues that will later become huge.  My husband and I both had premarital counseling and this was something we both agreed we should do. We both felt strongly about having it done.  Yes, we already had talked about these issues but it is good to have a non biased party. (incidentally we are both from different relgious backgrounds) We met 3 times with our minister and it wasn't all centered around the religious aspect.  We talked about the roles each of us expected from each other in the marriage and how we will handle situations that will arise like children and money.  I find that in a lot of churches this is quite normal.  But what I don't find normal is the fact that when you initially approached him to marry you he should have told you of his requirements and not done it at the last stage. When I asked my minister he immediately said he would like to meet with both of us a couple of times.

Yeah, actually, I forgot to say that as well. That reverend was seriously wrong by not bringing up the counseling requirements ages ago.

I got married in the Catholic church and we had to go through a marriage course before we got married.  it was very useful.  It covered issues like finances (a financial planner came and talked about financial planning)  family planning (The billings method - great information, helped me get pregnant both times!)  and it also touched on issues of conflict and then the big one - religion.    The financial and family planning was very useful and I still use that information, but the rest, I can't remember. 

This was the condition that was laid out the second we talked to the priest.   I figured "sure, I'll listen to what they have to say.  What will it hurt"  and other than the time it took, it wasn't a big deal at all.  I've  been married for 17 years. (basically, that just comes down to bloody hard work, I don't chalk that one up to pre-marital counselling LOL!)

You either have the goods to stay married or you don't.  And if counselling gets you thinking about certain things that you wouldn't normally think about, then is it so bad?  Also the marriage officials see a lot of marriages and they see successful and unsuccessful ones.  They want to give you as many tools to succeed as they can.  it is well intentioned - it just may not have come across as such when he used it as a threat.

If you want to be married in a church, you'll most likely have to have some pre-marital counseling.  IMO, you're seriously overreacting.  Why wouldn't you want to sit down and talk with your fiance about major issues that arise in every marriage?  If you find there's a serious disagreement, a neutral 3rd party can help you come to some kind of an agreement. 

I've never seen anyone get all bent over counseling before.  If you don't like organized religion or belong to a particular congregation, why do you want a pastor to marry you anyway?

I agree with both points.  It's the reverend's responsibility to counsel the couples he's going to marry and I can totally understand his position on this.  Most churches will require premarital counseling of some sort, so if you don't want to go through it, have a civil service.

DH and I aren't religious,  but we had a church wedding (because it was where my family goes -- I grew up in that church) and, therefore, had to meet with the pastor.  The meeting wasn't YOU SHOULD BELIEVE IN JESUS! kind of stuff.  It was more of a basic discussion of what it means to be married, what our responsibilities are to each other, and the church's views on marriage.  To this day, DH still brings up little snippets of that conversation (albeit in a jokey way  ).