Have I said lately...I REALLY love NHS

Curiously enough my parents just brought up this very topic on the phone...
My aunt has been told that the new medication for blood pressure that her Dr. wants her on is not going to be covered by her HMO.... she's retired and on a limited income.. in the USA....so it happens there too!

Also my mom and dad pay $93 a month each for Medicare and that's without part B for prescriptions as they have benefits through dad's military service.   So basically just looking at my mom's social security if she was paying for both Part A and Part B close to 30% of her total monthly social security income would go to pay for medical....and she'd still have to pay a certain amount (20% I think) for prescriptions...) so if she then also had to pay rent and feed herself....and if her meds were very expensive... exactly what would she have left to live off of? Even with her small pension from work she would still struggle. Life is not perfect anywhere... 

Mrs. Pink... one thing I thought was curious is the Pharmaceutical companies stopping people from the USA crossing the border to buy their meds in Canada.  Was that ever big news there?

Mrs. Pink... one thing I thought was curious is the Pharmaceutical companies stopping people from the USA crossing the border to buy their meds in Canada.  Was that ever big news there?

Yes, it was huge news.  They didn't want it stopped because there were individuals who were making a killing off Americans coming to Canada with prescriptions!  Some doctors had it all set up, just for Americans.  Shameful, really.

As one of those people whose employer didn't offer insurance and who went into bankrupcy due to medical debt - which you can almost no longer do at all thanks to Mr. Bush... 

Expat, I totally don't *get* the change in bankruptcy law back there, whereby it's more difficult now to file bankruptcy on medical debt.  I mean - WTF?!?!  If I understand correctly now (and I hope that I am wrong), it's easier to file banko in instances that irresponsible borrowers & irresponsible lenders are at odds over credit card debt than for someone who incurred tremendous medical debt!  If this is so, it completely beggars belief.  Sorry, slightly off topic, but I've been wondering about this very subject lately.

Yes, my mum's cousin's husband had to have an emergency triple bypass and of course, all the related treatments for coronary artery disease.

His share is $20,000.

Oh my god, how horrible! I had out-patient surgery this year, and my share was like $500. And I've spent about another $1,500 this year in co-pays and one new type of treatment that wasn't covered. And yet I've been hesitant about a possible move to the UK because of the NHS. I'm so afraid I'll have more knee problems and need to see a specialist or surgery, which I've heard can have very long waits. Maybe I shouldn't worry so much?

BTW, does anyone know how you handle it if you're moving back to the states (as some day we surely will) and you have a period of time that you're uninsured, either because the new job's insurance hasn't kicked in yet or you're looking or a job?

What always surprises me is whenever I'm seeing a doctor, nurse or consultant here in the UK & they can tell from my accent that I'm American, the topic of the US health care system invariably comes up. They are shocked to hear that, god forbid, you fall ill with a serious illness & you can't pay (or cover what your insurance doesn't) you can have serious debt after the treatment is complete. They hear how fab it is there & yes, it can be, but it's not infallible I tell them.

I also agree with whoever said that the decision to go private here is still an option if you feel things take too long, or the service is unsatisfactory.  I am so much more fundamentally "socialist" than I ever though I *could* be while living in the US.

For me, the NHS, even with it's faults, is a superb system in which I'm so grateful for.  That (or the cost of insurance in the US) is one of the major reasons I doubt I'd ever move back to the US.

I have been on both sides of this one too. As I grew up, my mom either worked at hospitals, or for insurance companies. She was a case manager, the one who decides what is covered. Now she is the manager of case managers. Anyway, so up until I got out on my own (age 21) I had fabulous insurance through my mom.

When I was 24 I moved over to the US and had  baby on NHS at 25. At 26 I moved back to the States, and then at 28 I got pg. My husband, unfortunately, did not work for a huge corporation, just a small design studio of about 10 people so the insurance SUCKED. The total cost of having DS including insurance premiums and deductibles was 11k.

I believe the NHS is a great idea, and the nurses and doctors for the most part are exceptional. I don't understand hiring all the managers and consultants though? I mean, how much more staff could they have hired in lieu of each consultant whose aim is to cut staff?

Overall, the management structure of the NHS needs to change. However, I fully believe in a basic free for all healthcare system, as I believe it is a conflict of interest for medical care to be for profit. In the US, the pharma companies want you to have depression, ED, arthritis, migraines, etc. so that you will buy their products. In the UK they want you to be well so that you won't need their products!

My grandma takes so many pills for so many conditions, and each new pill she takes creates a new condition. Sometimes I think she would be better off if she would simplify.

I'll take socialised medicine... however, improvements are in order.

(p.s. I have always wondered why $500 will buy someone's AIDS medicine in Africa for a year, but in the US it is barely 2 days worth?? WTH??)

i'm really happy to have a discussion about healthcare, both here and in the US. i completely agree that there inequities in both systems. we all know how the US system works but this thread began about the NHS and i hope we can all agree that there are some common misconceptions about it.
first, that it is free....IT IS NOT FREE!!! check your payslip or your husbands....NI. i think i pay as much or more as i did in the states!
second that it will cover ANY illness, that you, i, we will recieve care that is world class in EVERY situation, and that you, i, we will be able to make decisions about our care and have recourse to a second opinion. there is no such thing as second opinion here and care is very much dependent the resources of our local trust!!!
i just want to review the origin. it was a post war innovation that was designed to provide BASIC healthcare to all british citizens, free at the point of care. it was based on funding from a large working force, at a time when healthcare was decidely low-tech and when people were able to accept dying at home with the respected GP pushing a little morphine for comfort.

that however is a thing of the past, now it is reliant on HUGE government funding, healthcare has gone high tech(expensive) it pays for tatoo removal, IVF, and other questionable "health" problems, it is loaded with highly paid managers/administraters, and in the most basic sense, 1 nurse can not effectively care for 20 patients on a ward.

i am well aware of the shortcomings of the american system, i have a 22 year old son in the states without insurance and have had more than a few panicky moments about that.....but if he were to have a traumatic accident, i would prefer that he have it in the states...why? because he would recieve agressive treatment and (hopefully) SURVIVE, even if he ended up bankrupt.

just for fun i would suggest you research your local hospital, your closest trauma centre, response times of your local ambulance service???

Can I just say quickly to the many things I would like to say, but can't due to putting the little ones down to bed - BUT - in the US you still pay through your paycheck - it's called Medicare & YOU can't even utilize that until you're 65! I'd rather pay for it through my paycheck & high petrol prices, but that's just imo.

Also, you can have a second opinion. Just go to a different doctor! Don't see how that's a problem?

I realise you don't know me, but could I (Brit living in US) just make a couple of comments?

(1) I believe the US spends about twice as much (in terms of GNP) on healthcare compared to most European nations - and yet around 15% of the population have no healthcare cover.

(2) Re. the number of managers etc in the NHS: I recall reading somewhere that at least 30% of healthcare expenditure is spent on administration/$$$ collection.

(3) Yes, there are waiting-lists for specialist appointments and elective procedures, and NICE does not always keep abreast of the latest developments (especially as regards post-acute cancer therapies), but in the event of major trauma/emergencies, the NHS usually delivers.

(4) As far as the routine healthcare, maternal and child care, and the minor and major ops that most people are likely to require in their lifetime are concerned, the NHS is difficult to beat.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9447-2005Feb8.html

Wow, scary article. Things I knew, but to read it really hits home.

One of my good friends had breast cancer.  She had good insurance but the deductable on one of her chemo drugs was $500.  And that was just one of the drugs.  They barely hung onto their house by the end of her treatment.  Fortunately, their house had doubled since the bought it; they sold (in San Diego) and moved lock stock and barrel to South Carolina where they could buy a house for cash.  The moved saved them.

I do think that socialised medicine really needs an overhaul.  It just doesn't work the way it used to.  But the administrators are too happy collecting their huge paychecks on the backs of the patients.   

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A9447-2005Feb8.html

Yes, especially considering that this article is from 2005, before the legislation came into effect, when you could still apply for bankrupcy for medical debt.

Now, you need to pretty much be on disability for that to happen.

 it is just as difficult to reform the american system as it is to reform the NHS, remember the bollocking hilary clinton got when she even suggested it??
americans will not give up their way either...
my suggestions: don't get sick, don't go to the doctor and if either of those fails, book a trip to a remote desert island and enjoy your last days on the beach!! that's my plan!

just to add....regarding healthcare, it doesn't matter what goes on in the states...or china, france or timbuktu....if you are living in the UK and you get sick, you will be treated by the NHS! (unless you are already paying private, and did you know BUPA does not have intensive care?)i just think people ought to educate themselves about THIS system...when a crisis hits it won't do any good to wave your US passport thinking that it will get you to the front of the queue!

...when a crisis hits it won't do any good to wave your US passport thinking that it will get you to the front of the queue!

   I don't really know where this came from...don't think anyone was suggesting anything of the sort. 

I'm really sorry now that I ever commented about how I was glad I could afford to take my kids to the doctor.  I think this thread has veered waaayyyy off course.  Any chance of having it split so the debate could go on, but those of us who want to post about good experiences can do so w/out having to defend ourselves?