Have I said lately...I REALLY love NHS

http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2006/11/new-labour-is-destroying-n_116248633722687187.html

  I don't really know where this came from...don't think anyone was suggesting anything of the sort. 

I'm really sorry now that I ever commented about how I was glad I could afford to take my kids to the doctor.  I think this thread has veered waaayyyy off course.  Any chance of having it split so the debate could go on, but those of us who want to post about good experiences can do so w/out having to defend ourselves?

i think this has been a really polite, equal exchange of ideas/feelings/thoughts regarding the NHS and healthcare in general, i appreciate everyones input and hope mine is taken with respect also...

crabbit...i don't remember it ever being about you specifically......

Yes, especially considering that this article is from 2005, before the legislation came into effect, when you could still apply for bankrupcy for medical debt.

Now, you need to pretty much be on disability for that to happen.

I didn't know you couldn't apply for bankrupcy for medical debt anymore!  That is ridiculous!

  Any chance of having it split so the debate could go on, but those of us who want to post about good experiences can do so w/out having to defend ourselves?

sorry missed this....
i thought it was a discussion that is open to differing views, but it's just rah, rah,rah i luv the NHS!
there's no need to defend good experiences, i wish everyone had them but a good experience at the GP does not in any way imply that the NHS is a highly functioning effcient system.

there's no need to defend good experiences

Why ever not?

be warned, do everything you possibly can to avoid you or anyone you care about from becoming an inpatient at an NHS hospital!!!!

In my opinion, there's no need to make such sweeping (and frighteningly invalid) generalisations as the above one that you made. Most of us either can't afford or choose not to pay for private insurance. And most of us, at one time or another, are going to need medical care, sometimes involving hospitalisation. I think defending my good experience in an NHS hospital is both valid and helpful. I want to reassure people that while some may have had bad NHS experiences, most of the time things are fine -- the same way some people's bad experiences in the US do not mean the entire system there is dreadful. As others have said, no system is perfect, but there are great NHS hospitals and the care is usually excellent.

So, sorry if it offends, but I think I'll keep rah rah rah-ing! 

my sister has an MPH (masters in public health) from harvard.  her husband was going to be going to grad school in cali.  so she quit her job in Mass and they moved to Cali.  oh- and she's 3-4 months pregnant at this point.  during the move they were told that COBRA should apply, but that noone at the old job could help her out, and becuase it was a different state she was looking for cover, cobra again won't apply.  insues 3 month nightmare.  if someone who works in the US healthcare profession can't figure out how to have blasted health insurance- who the heck can?  (in the end my parents put her on the payroll in their company and she's covered by them).

the NHS isn't perfect.  i'm thinking about applying for nursing/midwifery school here in the UK.  one of the things that's stopping me is the fact that there's a hiring freeze on midwives in my area.  3 years of schooling just to be told I don't have a job ins't appealing.

but NHS vs US patchwork system.  I'd take NHS anyday. 

crabbit...i don't remember it ever being about you specifically......

I took the comment about my having a narrow, short sighted point of view as being about me specifically....

the NHS isn't perfect.  i'm thinking about applying for nursing/midwifery school here in the UK.  one of the things that's stopping me is the fact that there's a hiring freeze on midwives in my area.  3 years of schooling just to be told I don't have a job ins't appealing.

but NHS vs US patchwork system.  I'd take NHS anyday. 

Wait until you have 30 patients at one time and more than a few are critical to the point that they should be in high dependency (but no beds) and one dies because YOU cannot be ten places at once.  The NHS managers of course, refuse to allow more than one nurse on the ward due to budget problems even though there are nurses available to work.  You could be struck off and lose your license for what happened to that patient.  You would certainly take the blame.   Have fun sleeping after a shift like that. I have known of midwives to be in similiar situations with bad outcomes for babies that could have been prevented. The managers walk.

I guess that is okay as long as we can get same day appointments with the GP. 

Maybe I sound melodramatic but my trust really sucks at the minute and I am seeing some seriously bad stuff.  I am hearing bad things from other places as well.  There are still some good places to work but that doesn't seem to be the norm and jobs are hard to come by.

MTA they aren't screwing around to badly with the nurse patient ratios in critical care, HDU, or paeds yet so those are good places to go if you are thinking about a career in nursing. 

I had an experience in Canada with lack of open beds.  My DH was critically ill and needed to go to hospital.  I took him to Emerg and they didn't have a bed for him so they sent us home with a sedative/painkiller to get us through the next 48 hours, until a bed would be open.  Well, DH had an allergic reaction to the meds and he almost died.  And I had to rush him again to the emerg where he was ressucitated.  How stupid and it could have been avoided if there was enough beds. 

In Canada they keep closing more and more beds in efforts to cut the budgets.  In the early 80s they were building hospitals like crazy and in the 90s were closing them like crazy. 

I hate watching the most important ingredients to a healthy society:  healthcare, education and social services being whittled away while a small portion of the population gets richer and richer. 

The thing is that I can understand why a nurse working in a crap trust is going to feel the way you both do.

I just know from experience how bad care can be in the USA as well. 

My parents have insurance.  Two types.  Medicare and Tricare and dad is covered by the VA, yet in an emergency like a broken leg they are both taken to the nearest Emergency Room.  In two separate instances one with dad and one with mom they were treated and discharged back home.  I went to go pick up my father and brought him home to Atlanta with me where he went to the VA hospital there.  They were appalled at the way the leg had been handled and told him it was a good thing they saw him as quickly afterwards.

Fast forward a few years later and my mother slips on ice and fractures her tibia and ankle in two places.  I fly home for Christmas not even two days later.  They've put her in a plastic cast so tight that the foot and leg have begun to bruise and the bruises have begun to rot and the skin has adhered to the lovely "sock" they provided.  I can't get a hold of the orthopedic surgeon she's due to see because it's Christmas and my other alternative is to take her back to the same Emergency room that screwed her up to begin with or we drive to NC on Christmas eve which is over an hour away to their emergency room in Greensboro.  (That journey would have been nice! )  I called the hospital for advice and was told that I just had to wait until I could talk to her Dr. or bring her into Emergency... yeah right! So I wind up spending three days cleaning the wounds with sterile saline, topical antibiotic and letting it air in hopes that infection does not set in before I can get her to her doctor.   How is this a good level of care?

Don't even get me started on being a university student with no health coverage....or the amount of uninsured and under insured children in the USA.  I don't know that I have a solution for what would work, but I like to think that we could find a balance between providing a basic level of care and reaping the benefits of a profit driven medical industry. 

I am a nurse, have worked at private and public hospitals both in the US and UK.  Like has been said by many others, both have their plusses and minuses.  I have seen some horrific staffing levels in both places.  In my experience, it has been far unsafer in the US.  We had a 24 bed Intensive care unit staffed with 8 nurses at best over the winter period, weren't allowed to use agency nurses, just left to get on with it.  They  were, for the most part, ventilator dependent, staffing should have been 2 nurses to 1 patient, but we had 3 each most days.  Many unfavorable outcomes happened that were directly related to staffing.  They had stress debriefing sessions for the staff, things were that bad.  But no extra nurses, no onsite doctor, no auxillaries. 

Here, while not perfect, I have only had 2 patients twice in 5.5 years, have the ability to call in more staff, agency or bank, we are able to close the unit to admissions if staffing is unsafe, have great doctors (for the most part) in the unit/hospital at all times, are able to take time off to care for sick kids, or be sick ourselves without being penalized. 

I know it isn't this way throughout the UK, but it is here.  I feel for those of you that have to work in substandard conditions.  Been there, feels like hell.  I hope it improves, or you can find a more supportive place to work.  I wouldn't work under those conditions anymore. 

All this sounds like the most important thing is where you go -- some places are better staffed and better managed that others. Is there a listing somewhere of "good" hospitals and emergency rooms? Should we start one on this site? People could list the city and name of the hospital, even names of good GPs.

i understand where you're going with this groovy_yank... unfortunatly it is my understanding that where you are in the UK dictates where you entitled to have regular services.

now if you live in london and have an accident in birmingham, they arn't going to ship you to your local london hospital a&E.

however, i can only register at one GP surgery (doctor's office).  i have a choice of 5 doctors, but its really just who's avaialble at the time you want an appointment.  if i wanted to have a baby, i have a choice of 2 or 3 hospitals in my area.  the healthcare here is arranged by primary care trust. 

i do agree that investigating what your options are... if you were to become ill...

sorry missed this....
i thought it was a discussion that is open to differing views, but it's just rah, rah,rah i luv the NHS!
there's no need to defend good experiences, i wish everyone had them but a good experience at the GP does not in any way imply that the NHS is a highly functioning effcient system.

[Mod hat in hand]

Let's just keep everything pleasant please.  People are entitled to different opinions and certainly there is going to be a multitude of different experiences with the NHS.  Just because someone has had a good experience doesn't mean that someone else has to prove them wrong, or vice-versa.

I'm leaving it all together and not splitting anything, mostly because I think it's good to counteract the bad stuff with the good so as to not terrify people who are just thinking about the move. 
[/putting down mod hat]


As for me, in the last 17 years I have had almost all good experiences.  There have been one or two instances that I wished were acted on more quickly or aggressively but by and large I'll take it over having to worry about insurance.

it's kind of like being a waitress in a restaraunt....knowing what goes on in the kitchen may make you not want to eat there....?

i'll just repeat what i said several pages ago, and add that as a patient i too have had very positive experiences with my GP... BUT i am also a nurse and i feel that everyone should educate themselves to the healthcare system that will treat them.
if you were choosing an insurance plan in the states wouldn't you check out the doctors/hosptials reputation, location, specialties???