Calculating salary against living cost in London BOROUGH

I employ a member of staff (he's my Programmer!) who is in a wheelchair - he can drive and from a conversation with him recently, he tried ALOT of different cars that he felt comfortable with, easy to get his wheelchair in and out of. The 'actual' car didn't matter so much - just had to be a 5 door hatchback, as his wheelchair would be transported where the back seats are. He came up trumps with a Honda Jazz Automatic. The steering and pedal modification certainly didn't run into thousands! - I will ask him on Monday what the cost was etc. I do seem to remember he has the 'pull' for 'pressing the accelerator and 'push for the brake' - again I'll need to look at his car on Monday (or sometime next week!) to be better able to report to you.

Thanks for your help, Dennis! I'll wait for your finding. Also, please let me know how does your staff able to put the wheelchair into the car by himself (when there is no one to assist him). If you'd like, you can PM me for this topic specifically.

lastly, budget for variances in all the stuff you'll buy, Petrol, phone bills, utility bills mainly can vary substantially month to month

I have build quite a comprehensive budget and I tried to include all the points above, even calculating the exact cost of the tube (Zone 4 to 2). The other unexpected cost will depend on how money I can save after all the budgeting, which tied back to my original question of whether 49K is sufficient for me. Of course, everyone's lifestyle is different and 49K may or may not be enough, but I am trying to find a generally acceptable living cost in London or the borough.

Maybe I can put this in a perspective by comparing it with life in San Francisco:
There was a report a few years back that said a salary below US$ 60K is not enough and a family of 3-4 living in San Francisco will struggle with that amount. However, the average salary for experienced professional positions (Programmer, Engineer, Senior Accountant) is above US$70K. Therefore, for a family of 3-4, they can survive in San Francisco with US$ 70K, but not living lavishly. Fortunately, many big companies in San Francisco, banks included, pays above the market rate. I know that my company in US (another Big 4 firm) pays my staff an average of US$80K. My friend live in Spokane, Washington and he said the average salary there is about USD$ 35K but that's because the living cost over there is so cheap. He just bought a 4 bedroom house for US$ 100K, which is unheard of in San Francisco!

Of course, I can't compare the dollar-to-pound when making comparison between living in UK and US. This is only for comparing the salary in London, not the whole UK as I am sure that the salary level in other UK cities can be much lower because the living cost is lower too (think of San Francisco compared to Spokane, Washington).

I pay about £80 a month for a 2 bedroom flat in York. How can your council tax be the same as mine, with you living close to London and me living up north?

I went to RedBridge council website and got the Council Tax banding (http://www.redbridge.gov.uk/council/counciltax.cfm). Since the council tax is based on the price of the house, I search the price of a typical 2 bedroom flat in Redbridge (http://www.findaproperty.com/searchresults.aspx?edid=00&salerent=0&areaid=0545), with the assumption that that's how much the price for the apartment I will be RENTING. The average price is above GBP 168K, which put it in BAND G and the council tax is GBP 2,112 / YEAR or GBP 176 / month. That is definitely ABOVE my budget and everyone else’s! Is my calculation correct?

BTW, how much is the average utility (DSL, land phone, water, cable TV, etc.) cost approximately? I put mine at GBP 200.

BTW, how much is the average utility (DSL, land phone, water, cable TV, etc.) cost approximately? I put mine at GBP 200.

I'm sitting here at the table with my DH and I asked him what our's averages out at and he just shook his head.  We've only been here since November and we still can't quite get our hands around an average monthly utility bill simply because some want a payment every month and some every three months.  I'm sure someone else will have it broken down properly but here are some specifics from what bills are right in front of me: 

Our electricity bill from Nov until 15 Jan was 178 GBP. 
Water was a three month bill and was something like 250-300 GBP from Nov till Jan.
Our BT phone bill with hi-speed, broadband phone and regular land line is roughly 85 GBP per month (the first was high because of the gear that came with it...ran about 128 that month). 
Our SKY television is 75 GBP per month (high end b/c we are HUGE TV watchers). 
Cell phone for one is roughly 40 GBP, DH gets his through work. 
Council gym membership for one is 45 GBP per month (premier membership).
Council tax for us is roughly 2200 GBP per year (again billed in chunks).
 

OH...and don't forget, as someone previously mentioned having some wiggle room.  Case in point...through the mail door yesterday came a driving ticket for 100 GBP for being in a bus lane during unauthorized hours.  UGH...couldn't argue seeing as there were two pics of me in the car.   

I just paid our water bill and it was about £100 for six months (we're on a meter and we're with Three Valleys not Thames).

The electricity and gas bill was £215 for the quarter, but that's quite high due to the time of year - it's usually less than that....

Our Council Tax is £155 per month (just outside of London).

My mobile is usually about £30 a month.

Water was a three month bill and was something like 250-300 GBP from Nov till Jan.
Council tax for us is roughly 2200 GBP per year (again billed in chunks).

I just paid our water bill and it was about £100 for six months (we're on a meter and we're with Three Valleys not Thames).

For the water bill, that's quite a different in the amount! On a monthly basis, it's GBP 91 for kdunk and about GBP 15 for Anne.

I am getting a stressed now, since I have to give my decision to the company by this Monday or else I'd lose the offer. I have hold off for 1 week and spent that time crunching the number, yet I am still worried that our life will be very hard financially with the salary they're offering especially for my wife and daughter. This is mainly because I have zero knwoledge on how much certain things cost. I have tried to cut corner here and there, set up separate budget for even things like pocket money, and with my budget calculations so far, not including the bonus, I can only save about GBP 30!

<pounding head>...

Not sure about AnneR's family...family of 4 here with two little girls and A LOT of laundry! 

It is an incredibly hard decision...whether to take the plunge or not.  It's one of those things that you think you'd have an easy time deciding until it's actually on the table.   When it comes down to it...boil away all the bills and financial crap...you have to do what's right for your family.  If moving out here is too much of a gamble it might be worth passing on.  Then again, living in the UK for many of us Americans is a chance in a lifetime...for us personally, that was hard to put a price on.   

Wishing you clear thoughts 

lanwarrior, you probably already made your decision but...

I think at 49K you should be able to make it work out...

The UK vs the US from a wheelchair perspective is interesting.  Ever since I made a close personal friend with someone with MD, I have come to think in terms of people in a wheelchair.  In the UK you will find a lot less accomidation for wheel chairs in structures, mostly because of the age of most things, this especially comes to the tube.

I think the American ADA went a long way to setup basic standards which are somewhat impractical in the UK, though they tend to make some adjustments, though it always seems odd what they consider "an effort"...  Like I have seen handicap "automatic doors" with a dozen stairs to the approach and no ramp in site and other odd things.  The ADA made it very clear what was acceptable and what wasn't.

What you will notice, though I haven't known anyone here personally wheelchair bound, is that people will, as a matter of due course, go out of their way to assist people with disabilities.

Also, you may have found it already, but the Dial-A-Ride program of London Transport is here http://www.tfl.gov.uk/dial-a-ride/.  From what I can tell, is that most of the bookings are for the next day and they indicate "it might be difficult to do same-day-service".  That would seem to indicate that it is better then the experience in the States.  Also the costs are VERY reasonable (5-miles for £1.50, that is pretty damn good).

Also, I think most London Transport area buses are wheelchair accessible.  While they are admitedly slower then other forms of transport, they are LOTS of them and they go EVERYWHERE.  You usually find an equivilant bus for any tube route you may want to go.  Outside of contending with ladies with params, the wheelchair area is very pratical and the ramps seem to be quite handy as well (though I haven't tried them).

80 : car insurance and gas (the car and the maintenance are paid for by the company)

I think your car insurance and gas might be a bit low.  If you have a van it's likely to be relatively pricy to fuel and insure, especially as insurance starts out expensive and gets cheaper as you make no claims over the years.  I would factor in as much as £40-50/month for insurance and maybe £200/month if you filled up once per week in gas.

The utilities is a difficult one.  Like Anne's ours is only £15/month.  Maybe Three Valleys water is the cheapest water supplier in Britain?  I don't know?

Food-wise, I see there's a Waitrose in South Woodford which looks to be no more than a couple miles from you.  If you take the job and move there I'd check it out, very nice, quality food supermarket.  We spend perhaps £350-400/month on food for the 2 of us and our baby.

I wouldn't sweat the money side of things.  At 49K plus another 8.5K allowance you will live quite comfortably, I don't think you'll have Anything to worry about.  Traveling from zone 4-2 means you're not even going into central London which will probably save you a fair bit on travel and as you say, your wife won't need to pay the congestion charge.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't live pretty easily on the salary and save up a fair bit as well.  Obviously that depends on how lavish your lifestyle is.  Some people just love to spend money no matter how or why.

I think your car insurance and gas might be a bit low.  If you have a van it's likely to be relatively pricy to fuel and insure, especially as insurance starts out expensive and gets cheaper as you make no claims over the years.  I would factor in as much as £40-50/month for insurance and maybe £200/month if you filled up once per week in gas.

I agree with the insurance cost you've suggested (my tiny 12-year-old car is costing me £450 per year for insurance and that's with a significant discount), but I don't know if the petrol would be as much as £200 a month - although that depends on how much driving you will be doing and how efficient the car is.

I currently drive about 200 miles a week, petrol (gas) is costing me £80 per month and my car, as old as it is, does around 40 mpg.

I think the American ADA went a long way to setup basic standards which are somewhat impractical in the UK, though they tend to make some adjustments, though it always seems odd what they consider "an effort"...  Like I have seen handicap "automatic doors" with a dozen stairs to the approach and no ramp in site and other odd things.  The ADA made it very clear what was acceptable and what wasn't.

You're right. I spent 2 weeks "touring" the city of London and some of the burrough that we're planning to live in and I checked out quite a lot of things, including building access, tube stations,  bus, and just walk around in the area like Wanstead and checking whether the sidewalk at the intersections have "ramp" in the side for a wheelchair to go through. I'd say that certain things are wheelchair accessible, but old buildings are simply not, even elevators in some of the newest building are so small that an electric scooter won't fit at all. This is one thing that worries me to no end...

What you will notice, though I haven't known anyone here personally wheelchair bound, is that people will, as a matter of due course, go out of their way to assist people with disabilities.

Again, you're right. When I was in London 3 weeks ago, an old man with a cane was trying to get into the train and he was struggling. A couple of guys just jumped out of their seat and hold his hand, helping him to the seat. I am yet to see this in San Francisco, the most people will do is just to move out of the way. But then again, I hardly take public transporation in US due to my work.

Outside of contending with ladies with params, the wheelchair area is very pratical and the ramps seem to be quite handy as well (though I haven't tried them).

Which ramp are you referring to? Is this the built-in one that slides from under the bus? I ride on one of the new buses in London and I noticed that there is a pillar right in the middle of the bus, next to the wheelchair sections, making it difficult for an electric wheelchair to go around. My wife definitely have to try getting in the bus and manouvering between the pillar. It's not impossible, but I think it's very difficult.

I think your car insurance and gas might be a bit low.  If you have a van it's likely to be relatively pricy to fuel and insure, especially as insurance starts out expensive and gets cheaper as you make no claims over the years.  I would factor in as much as £40-50/month for insurance and maybe £200/month if you filled up once per week in gas.

I am thinking of getting a Honda Jazz and based on WhatCar? magazine, the insurance cost is GBP 299 for Group 3. The insurance may be higher or lower depending on the driver, but I hope that the UK insurance company will take into account my wife driving experience (she has a US driver license). Speaking of US driving experience, how will the UK insurance company factor in the driving experience in the US when calculating the insurance cost? When I was in Singapore, I had to ask Farmers to send me a letter indicating that I have been driving in the US for more than 5 years and didn't have any accidents during that period or else the Singapore Insurance company will put me in the same bracket as a student who just got a driver license (?)

For the gas, actually I budget GBP 150 / month, separate from the insurance cost. It was a typo earlier.

I forgot to ask: is council tax usually included as part of the monthly rental cost or it is separate?

I forgot to ask: is council tax usually included as part of the monthly rental cost or it is separate?

Its separate.

Forgot to add, we pay £160 a year for Thames water (non-metered).

I forgot to ask: is council tax usually included as part of the monthly rental cost or it is separate?

Depends on the landlord.

- 80 : car insurance and gas (the car and the maintenance are paid for by the company)

To the OP.  I think you are probably a little low on your Monthly budget figure for Insurance and Petrol.  My fiance fills up his little itty bitty Mini about once a month and it's £45.  He doesn't drive very much, usually just on the weekends or sometimes in the evenings and it's usually always local (not more than a few miles).   

His car insurance is about £50/Month for a single named driver on the car.

Good luck.

We're in nearly an identical situation - a family of four on a salary of 48,000 living in Redbridge. The bottom line is that with your salary you can live VERY well by UK standards. The problem is that it's not the same as US standards. We rent a 700 sq. ft. 2 bed flat for 800 pounds per month - 900 pounds will get you something a bit bigger. But that usually means an extra tiny room, not bigger rooms. Depending on your wife's mobility she may find it hard getting around narrow hallways and doorways, etc. And of course there's usually little storage space so you'd have to budget for wardrobes, etc., but you could get them used quite cheaply.

I'd be happy to answer any specific questions you have.

Ianwarrior,
Regarding car insurance, you may be able to get an insurance report from your US insurance to give to the UK insurance company.  If they deem it worthy, they can give you No Claims Discount bonus.  Every year you own a car and don't make any claims you get a NCD (No Claims Discount) of a certain percentage which reduces the premiums.  I would shop around.  If they decided not to give you any discount you could pay a lot more than the £299 you were quoted as I'd guess the £299 is an average amount for an average number of NCDs.  Where you live, your age and gender and how many NCDs you have along with a few other factors determine your premiums.  Whether they whack it up because of the disability changes I don't know?

Regarding the council tax, be sure to ask the landlord/letting agency because some include it in the rent and some don't.  You don't want a nasty surprise especially as some councils may charge well over £100/month.

The other thing I was thinking about is it sounds like you may have some kind of mileage or car allowance.  Are they giving you a fuel card?  If so, they often cover private mileage as well as business and you're wife may be able to get free petrol on the company.