Hot water heater not working

me too, and i hate it.

I'm quite happy with an electric range and water heating, but I'm not a fan of storage heaters.  The lack of control is a problem, especially in changeable weather when you never really know how much heat you'll need from one day to the next.   There are no city gas supplies this far out, so LPG cylinders are the only option for gas.

i do have a 20 year old electric shower thing that we never use. my son used it last night, told me he is never going to take a "ghetto" shower like that again!!!!

Just so long as it doesn't look like this one!   Scary!   

I'm not a fan of storage heaters.  The lack of control is a problem, especially in changeable weather when you never really know how much heat you'll need from one day to the next.   There are no city gas supplies this far out, so LPG cylinders are the only option for gas.

We've no gas supply in this part of the town, and my DH nixed the idea of the bottled gas.   so E7 it is. 

There's the option of oil, but it comes with a relatively high installation cost.  That used to be offset considerably by the lower running costs, but with the hikes in oil prices of the last few years, it's a much less attractive proposition now.

Just so long as it doesn't look like this one!   Scary!   

not quite that scary!!!

waiting anxiously for the new man in my life....the boiler repairman!!

Hi Paul,

Hoping you can lend your expertise again. I called the electrical company on Monday about our hot water heater not heating up the water and they said I needed to call a plumber. Since we have a plumber coming tomorrow to install a new toilet (and making an entire day of it) I told him about the problem and he said he could look at it. The thing is tonight after 4/5 days without hot water....it seems to be working now??? Do you have any idea how it would stop working and then start to heat up again? Obviously there is a problem but would like to have some insight before the plumber possibly takes us to the cleaners on the hot water heater too! Thanks!

hi jules...can't give any advise....just to lend my support....after 5 days of no heat and hot water... it's fixed today.
had a plumber/boiler repairman out three times....at first he thought it was a control board, but after talking to a rep from the manufacturer he came back and checked the relays....
BINGO!!! turned out to be a £30 relay. cost £150 labor though!!!
planning to send one son to electricians training and the other to plumbling....forget doctors and lawyers!!!!!

good luck!!

ladybug59, very glad to hear that all is working again for you!  OMG...five days without heat or hot water is unimaginable! 

At least we have had heat and hot water via an electric shower. As for washing the dishes, we have used the electric kettle for that....hmm, all of that said, I can't believe how many compromises I have to make over here from time to time. I guess if we ever move back to the states I will be much more self sufficient/creative than I was prior to moving here.....ahh, the British way. As I always say to my Brit husband....the Brits are a stronger breed because they just get on with it...without complaint!   

That said....Paul, please help! 

turned out to be a £30 relay. cost £150 labor though!!!

Ouch!   I need to increase my rates!       That relay price is steep too, unless it was something really unusual.   Most of these boilers just use general-purpose plug-in power relays, normally about £5 each and looking something like these:

The thing is tonight after 4/5 days without hot water....it seems to be working now??? Do you have any idea how it would stop working and then start to heat up again?

Ah.....  An intermittent fault.  Intermittents can be some of the worst problems to track down because so long as the thing works everything seems to check out O.K.   And of course, it's Sod's Law that the time you're there with your meter trying to find the fault is the time that it all seems fine but as soon as you pack up and leave it stops working again!

Anyway, based on the symptons so far, first I'd be looking for any obviously bad connections.  It could be something as simple as a loose terminal -- At the timer control, the heating element on the cylinder, or any other junction boxes between.   I'd put a meter on the circuit to see if I had the proper voltage present and operate the timer on and off a few times (bearing in mind that we now know this to be an intermittent fault, and contacts can sometimes fail that way -- connecting on some operations but not others). 

I'd do the same thing at the thermostat on the cylinder, opening and closing the switch contacts by turning the temperature setting up and down several times to see if it reliably switched on and off each time.   I'd also be looking for any signs of burning around the housing or the terminals which could be indicative of a bad connection internally. 

As a final possibility, it could still be the element itself.   When they fail, they usually fail completely and for good, but occasionally you can find one which exhibits an intermittency like this.  I'd put a meter on it which measures the insulation using a high voltage.   Passing this test isn't absolute proof that the element is not at fault, but a poor reading on this test is a sure sign that the element is on its last legs anyway and could be the problem, certainly if everything else appears to be in order.   (Don't expect a plumber to have an insulation test meter though!)

Here's what the typical unit on the cylinder looks like with the cover removed.  The little unit which is being lifted out with the rod is the thermostat, the terminals on the fitting go to the element which extends, of course, inside the cylinder:

Wow Paul, many thanks for your thoughts on the problem and the picture too! I wish it wasn't up in the loft so I could at least have a look at it (not that I could fix it).  Its very annoying that its intermittent because you are right its going to be tough to figure out the problem. My worry is that this specific plumber may not be able to fix it. From what you have outlined at least I can ask questions about specific parts that may have the fault...much appreciated!!!   

You're most welcome.  Let me know how you get on. 

Hi Paul,

Well I don't think the plumber was too scientific about it (no meter to gauge things) but he changed the thermostat so we will just have to see how it goes. The water is a lot hotter now. Like you said it was difficult to diagnose....all of the wires looked ok and the water tank itself is relatively new. By the way, everything is up in the loft.

He installed a new toilet for us in the downstairs bathroom as well. £150 quid for three hours work to install it. I think I should become a plumber.....not bad money! A big ouch for us though.....but then again trying to get someone to install it was almost  impossible so we are glad its done.  Oh well....fingers crossed everything is working now. 

Next week its a new electric shower install (current shower has a major thermostat issue), I had the can inside changed a couple of months ago but its become worse so want to scrap it for a new one), I am using Triton since their showers come with a two year warranty and they will actually come out to install and repair if needed (unlike a lot of plumbers who can't be bothered). The new shower was £142 on sale from £169 at B&Q so probably a bit more pricey than others but I love the fact that we can get it serviced without issue. Hopefully this will be the last thing we need to do for a while because its breaking the bank a bit.

Thanks again...you are a big help to those of us with plumbing and electrical issues. You are certainly our resident SME. 

he changed the thermostat so we will just have to see how it goes. The water is a lot hotter now.

Thermostats are very common points of failure, so if everything else appeared to be in order that's a reasonable move, especially as they're pretty cheap and easy to change.

The old 'stat may have been opening too soon (and sticking open sometimes, hence your "no heat" problem), or the water may be hotter now because the new 'stat is set to a higher temperature.  Incidentally, if you are in a hard-water area you can help minimize the build-up of scale by keeping your hot water temperature down a little.  If you can live with 140 degrees from the hot tap, that's ideal (that'll be 60 centigrade on the new thermostats).

Next week its a new electric shower install (current shower has a major thermostat issue), I had the can inside changed a couple of months ago but its become worse so want to scrap it for a new one), I am using Triton since their showers come with a two year warranty

The shower units can suffer from the same limescale problems as hot-water systems in hard-water areas.  A Triton shower that I wired up for a neighbor about 4 years ago has just given up the ghost and now needs replacing. 

One thing you need to watch carefully when replacing an instant electric shower is the power rating.   What's the rating of the new unit, and either the power rating of the old unit or the rating of the fuse/circuit-breaker which feeds it?

I've seen too many instances where somebody has upgraded to a more powerful shower but the existing wiring isn't heavy enough.  It's become a real problem since 9 and even 10 kilowatt showers have started taking over where a few years ago 7 to 8kW was more usual.

You are certainly our resident SME. 

SME?   

Sorry, SME is Subject Matter Expert! 

The existing electric shower is 9.5, when I had the can replaced the technician checked that 9.5 was correct (he looked at the electricals in the house). We bought a 9.5 and I will say the water flow on the old one is still spot on (its just the temp that is bad) and that is coming from someone who needs a decent shower in the morning...   If only we had gas central heating I would pay to get a normal shower off of the mains (now that would be a true power shower) but since we don't have that we know that we will have to replace the shower every couple of years but to me that is money well spent! There is no price on having a proper shower in the morning.

We are in a major hard water/limescale area so that definitely packs things up! The plumber set the stat at 60 on the hot water heater...not sure what the old one what set on but 60 seems good...a least I am not burning my hands in hot water anymore! 

The existing electric shower is 9.5, when I had the can replaced the technician checked that 9.5 was correct

Ah, O.K.  Just wanted you to be aware that you can't always just replace with a more powerful unit if the existing wiring isn't up to it. 

If only we had gas central heating I would pay to get a normal shower off of the mains

The electric shower quite probably comes straight off the mains supply anyway.  It's the only way to get any decent pressure, unless you have a separate pump installed as well. 

There's no reason why you can't fit a regular mixer shower plumbed from the existing hot cylinder and cold cistern if you wish.    The only drawback that brings is that if there is very little head of water above it, the pressure and flow rate can be poor.  Again, that be compensated for by installing a pump.  You can also buy shower units which from the outside look very similar to the electric showers but which are actually connected to both hot and cold supplies and have a pump inside them.

Jules,

Did you get your new shower installed?  And the water heater still working all right?