Defining "term time" (working on student visa, mainly for postgrads)

I know this subject has come up before, but for the life of me I cannot find the thread anywhere. I know this relates to visas, but it's very particular to students and I didn't want this to get buried under the onslaught of threads on the visa board, so that's why I put it here.

In my quest to get clarification on whether international postgrad students in the UK are allowed to work full time during their dissertation-writing period, I came across this little gem from the Employing Migrant Workers site linked off the BIA pages- www.employingmigrantworkers.org.uk (which is a Home Office site.)

Here's the part I was interested in: (extract from a *very* useful FAQ about working on a student visa)
"Q70 - Students from outside the EEA can work for 20 hours per week during term time. How do you define term-time?
Students should be able to provide proof of the term dates for their course if required. However, there may be periods of time where a student is not expected to attend classes, but when they should be spending their time studying, writing a dissertation, or preparing for exams as part of their course. They should not be working full-time during this period. "

So no full time work during the summer dissertation period for postgrads, even though it falls outside of official "term time."  As far as I can tell though, working full time after the completion of the dissertation but before expiry of the visa is okay.

(If this was referenced on the other thread that I know is out there somewhere I apologise- just putting it here now in the hopes it'll help someone else out there with the same question.)

Things don't get buried on the immigration boards, we always answer

You haven't quite got it right.  During summer vac, the Uni is closed, no one has timetabled classes, and although you are working on your dis or thesis you are still free to work full time, as it is vacation time.

The periods they are referring to are during term when, althoguh you don't have classes, you may have meetings with your course supervisor, when the course directory says you are expected to put in 16 hours a week of individual study or whatever.  For an undergrad this is easy to measure, as it is either going to be term time, vacation, or a 'reading week. (ie revision time).  For a post grad, judge it by whether the undergrads have timetabled lectures and if the lecturers are on their holidays.

So...spend the summer working full time if you want to!

Vicky

Really??  Okay, that makes me feel a lot better because I've really been stressing about this (damn the exchange rate and my dwindling bank balance!)  If that's the case then that's great- I just wanted to make sure I wasn't about to break any rules or anything! 

I wish the answers to questions like these were more clear...but maybe that would be asking too much, hehe.

Andrea, you're only here on a one year Master's, correct? I had this same question and if you look here: http://www.ukcosa.org.uk/images/workduring.pdf and go to page 2, second column, under "what does vacation mean in this context", you'll see that you are not able to work full time during the summer as that's when you're writing your dissertation. It does say you can take a reasonable amount of time for a summer vacation if you work that out with your advisor, but that's not the whole summer if you're supposed to be writing. And once you finish writing and hand in your dissertation, you're able to work full time as you're awaiting your results.

wait wait wait...now I'm confused!  So who's right- Vicky or UKCOSA?   

I think perhaps it depends on the type of masters you're doing. My dept offers 2 master's courses - 1 taught and 1 research.

I am on the research masters which means that the course is 12 months long and I am expected to work on my research project full-time until September 30th 2007 (I actually have to work full-time on it if I have any hope of finishing by the end of the year), which means that if I were an international student, I don't think I would be allowed to work during the summer months.

However, the taught masters is only a 9-month course, which ends in June. The students will hand in their research projects, take their finals in June and will then be completely finished, therefore free to undertake full-time employment during the summer (at least, the UK students can - the international students may not be able to work. It would depend on how long their visas were valid for, the rules of the visa, etc.)

See, but I'm also on a taught masters, but it's 12 months long, not 9 (I have a dissertation to do- submit date is 30 Sept 2007.)  I have no exams, just coursework and dissertation- lectures ended at the end of March, but I still have 1 more paper to write for the taught course which is due in 4 weeks...after that, all I have left is the dissertation.

I really wish the Home Office would publish clear guidance on this subject.

Your masters sounds similar to mine - I've taken 5 undergrad courses to supplement my research, but I don't have any exams at all (although I had a few practicals and essays to write last semester) and my thesis is technically due on Sept 30 (although we have a 2-year write-up period after that date). However, I have to finish by Christmas because I start my PhD in the US in January!

It does sound like you won't be able to work during the summer as you will still be enrolled on the course and will probably expected to be in the dept. My research project counts for the full 100% of the degree and the work has only really started in the last few weeks - even if I wanted to work during the summer, there's no way i'd have any time to do so !

The way I think of it is that 'term-time' for the 12-month masters is Oct-Dec, Jan-Mar, April-Sept, with the vacation time being 4 weeks over Christmas and 4 weeks at Easter (although I ended up being at uni full-time for the Easter vacation). So, in terms of getting a job, I am under the impression that you would have been able to work during the Christmas and Easter vacations, but not during the summer, as the university will expect you to be working full-time on your dissertation.

see, that's what I was thinking too.  But just to clarify- not being able to work full time on a student visa doesn't equate to not being able to work *at all*...students are allowed to work 20 hours/week during term time (During vacation periods, any number of hours is permitted, hence why I'm trying to define vacation.)

I definitely will be working this summer- just trying to figure out about the hours.  Of course, like you I'm not sure whether full time work is even feasible with the dissertation I have to write...may have to just stick with part time after all!

see, that's what I was thinking too.  But just to clarify- not being able to work full time on a student visa doesn't equate to not being able to work *at all*...students are allowed to work 20 hours/week during term time (During vacation periods, any number of hours is permitted, hence why I'm trying to define vacation.)

Sorry, I did know that - I was reading the page about it in the UKCOSA document as I typed , I was just thinking in terms of full-time work, rather than part-time!

I guess you'll only be able to work up to 20 hours per week over the next few months - actually I think I'd struggle with working that many hours, judging by the amount of research I have ahead of me (I'm already almost 2 months behind my timeplan and have a few more months of data analysis, data interpretation and mathematical theory to complete before I even get to the thesis-writing part)!

It's hard enough working the 12 hours per week that I do at the moment - and my manager has been trying to persuade me to work even more hours over the summer!

Man...I'd KILL for even 12 hours a week! Like you Andrea, the bank account is dwindling! I probably shouldn't work so I can get everything done on time, but unfortunately, that's not an option.

Having read the UKOSA guidelines then I think you need to go with what they say.  My guidelines don't take into account having a summer which is, effectively, not a vacation.  Sorry for the confusion.  NONE of my handbooks make this distinction 

Vicky

Other than the Christmas and Easter vacations, you definitely need to stick to working less than 20 hours until the official end date of your studies.  You certainly cannot apply the undergraduate summer vacation to your different postgraduate schedule, that is very bad advice and could get you into trouble!

The good news is that after the official end date of your course, you can work with no limit until the end of your visa.  And once you have your result you can apply for the new International Graduates scheme if you want to.  There is another thread about this.

UKCOSA has a very good advice line that is open every day, you can always ring them to check any of this stuff.

I think the important thing to remember is the spirit of the regulations, rather than the exact wording.  Not working full-time on a student visa is designed so people don't get a student visa as an excuse to come over here and actually just work the whole time.  It's just a gentle reminder that your focus is your studies, not work, but recognising that it's difficult to live without some sort of supplemental income.  We obviously have more free time during the summer, because while working on disseration, there is no structured lecture time.  It's not technically a holiday period, because it is the specific time allotted to research and write the dissertation that is required to complete our degree.  Therefore, it would make sense that full-time work was still not permitted until the dissertation is complete, keeping the focus on STUDIES still, rather than work.

I know immigration law isn't made by logic, but that's what logic dictates.  The reason there's the 20-hr figure is to give a guideline of what part-time work generally is.  If you work 21 hrs one week and 19 the next, immigration officials aren't going to hunt you and chuck you out.  So long as it's obvious that you're working part-time and working on school full-time, then you're not invalidating your visa.

Just my opinion .

Not working full-time on a student visa is designed so people don't get a student visa as an excuse to come over here and actually just work the whole time.  It's just a gentle reminder that your focus is your studies, not work, but recognising that it's difficult to live without some sort of supplemental income. 

Wise words, but unfortunately there really isn't any recognition by UK Immigration authorities that someone needs supplementary income just to live.  On the contrary, students must always be able to pay their fees and living costs without needing to work.  You need to think of the income from working as paying for the extras, luxuries, etc.  If you cannot get by without working, you are in breach of the conditions of your visa.