[MERGED]Moving for the NHS; Opinions and Advise(Sicko Movie)

I totally agree with you SillySprite. That is part of the problem, some people will pay some kind of insurance while others seems to take a free ride. At least  socialized medicine is equal for everybody. You pay a percentage of your paycheck and you all pretty much get the same service. Of course the very rich will always have more choices, they can go to the moon if they prefere the care there but everybody else will at least get their basic health needs met.

The US system seems crazy to me. Even if you have good insurance, you can never be sure that they are going to pay, and chances are, they will not pay for everything. In fact, insurance companies have armies of highly trained people who's only job is to spend all day every day trying to find ways of disallowing or reducing payments. Couple that with the fact that the hospitals and doctors will bill for everything they can possibly find an excuse to give you including the amount of times you accept a bed pan and someones going to lose out, and its going to be the patient in 10 out of 10 cases, you can be sure of that.

And what about people with pre existing conditions.. they are totally stuffed forever!


I couldnt live under that system, its madness!


 

I had an eye opener when I had to take my daughter to emergency in San Diego. 

They had a cart that contained everything, cotton balls, alcohol wipes etc..  and each time they needed something, they had to punch in a code.  So the student nurse who was doing my daughter's blood work, kept screwing up and going back to the cart for ANOTHER cotton ball, ANOTHER wipe.  I kept thinking "And how much are they charging me for each one of those?" 

Also, when I got the bill for the ambulance, they charged me for a blanket.  I wanted the darn blanket, I paid for it! 

but I will say, that our insurance was fantastic and the care we got was phenomenal.  When it's good and it works, it's great.  Also, we never got any long term or really serious illnesses so I don't know how our insurance would have reacted with that. 

I would like to see what proof you have to substantiate this claim - that half of the uninsured in the US simply choose to be uninsured.

This doesn't substantiate it exactly but it is interesting -

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/0
4/business/04view.html?_r=1&ex=1194930000&
en=dfad478732494501&ei=5070&emc=eta1&o
ref=slogin

Some 47 million Americans do not have health insurance.

This number from the Census Bureau is often cited as evidence that the health system is failing for many American families. Yet by masking tremendous heterogeneity in personal circumstances, the figure exaggerates the magnitude of the problem.

To start with, the 47 million includes about 10 million residents who are not American citizens. Many are illegal immigrants. Even if we had national health insurance, they would probably not be covered.

The number also fails to take full account of Medicaid, the government’s health program for the poor. For instance, it counts millions of the poor who are eligible for Medicaid but have not yet applied. These individuals, who are healthier, on average, than those who are enrolled, could always apply if they ever needed significant medical care. They are uninsured in name only.

The 47 million also includes many who could buy insurance but haven’t. The Census Bureau reports that 18 million of the uninsured have annual household income of more than $50,000, which puts them in the top half of the income distribution. About a quarter of the uninsured have been offered employer-provided insurance but declined coverage.

Of course, millions of Americans have trouble getting health insurance. But they number far less than 47 million, and they make up only a few percent of the population of 300 million.

The US system seems crazy to me. Even if you have good insurance, you can never be sure that they are going to pay, and chances are, they will not pay for everything. In fact, insurance companies have armies of highly trained people who's only job is to spend all day every day trying to find ways of disallowing or reducing payments. Couple that with the fact that the hospitals and doctors will bill for everything they can possibly find an excuse to give you including the amount of times you accept a bed pan and someones going to lose out, and its going to be the patient in 10 out of 10 cases, you can be sure of that.

And what about people with pre existing conditions.. they are totally stuffed forever!


I couldnt live under that system, its madness!


 

I think there is some misconception when it comes to what insurance will and won't pay - if you have employee paid insurance your employer actually dictates what the insurance will cover based on what they pay - the insurance company doesn't dictate it. While it is decided based on cost, the decision rests in the hands of the employer, not the insurance company. Just an FYI.

I've been employed (and therefore insured) by a US corporation for decades. But my HMO went belly up a few years back and, in protest, I opted out of the HMO system. I went back to what we had in the US BEFORE the HMO concept was introduced: I had insurance with a high deductible for catastrophic illnesses, and for ordinary medical expenses I put my hand in my pocket.

An office visit to the doctor is around $60. A full blood workup: $110. A mammogram: $300. A tetanus shot: $35. And because my health insurance was for big emergencies only with a high deductible, it wasn't that expensive. I spent less for health care than for car repair in an average year. And I had complete control over doctors and timing.

We've got it into our heads that individuals simply cannot pay for medical care. Not so. Getting hit by a bus or having a stroke we can't pay for without help. Routine medical care and an annual checkup is a dawdle.

We've got it into our heads that individuals simply cannot pay for medical care. Not so.

In some cases it is so.  I was one.  I was 19 and working a minimum-wage job.  I paid a pretty penny to have the type of insurance you described, which left f*ck all at the end of each month after paying essential bills. I got sick once and did not have the extra $75 to see the doctor.  I called EVERY doctor in town and not a single one would see me without paying to co-pay up front.  So, I ended up ignoring the fact that I was sick, telling myself it was probably just a virus and I would get better.  I didn't and wound up with an ER visit and a very large bill.  You also didn't mention presriptions which can be very expensive.  It's great that it suited you so well, but for many people who are on low-wages, $100 here and $100 there is a LOT of money, not just a "dawdle".

Well, yes. It's hard to be poor.

The 47 million also includes many who could buy insurance but haven’t. The Census Bureau reports that 18 million of the uninsured have annual household income of more than $50,000, which puts them in the top half of the income distribution. About a quarter of the uninsured have been offered employer-provided insurance but declined coverage.

I have several friends back home who can afford to have large car payments, ski trips, expensive clothes etc but won't pay for their own health insurance.  They can afford it, but don't want to pay for it.  One of them owns 2 properties, makes almost $100K a year and didn't have any insurance.  He was recently diagnosed with cancer and his bill for surgery & treatment is over $200K.  Our friends have come together to help raise money to pay for it.  We all questioned, why didn't he have insurance?  He could afford it.   

Well, yes. It's hard to be poor.

Not even poor - just not rich.... I've always been reasonably well paid, but given student loans, etc. if I was suddenly presented with a bill for even $100 it would throw me off for the entire month. I recently had to pay a parking ticket and because it was a particularly tight month, I didn't recover for weeks. And that's just a stupid parking ticket - not something important like my health....

I suppose we're haggling definitions, then. If you can't scrape up a hundred bucks, that's pretty much what I call poor.

I think there's a difference between the word 'poor' in the generally accepted use of the term and what is actually an issue about debt to income ratios.

I suppose we're haggling definitions, then. If you can't scrape up a hundred bucks, that's pretty much what I call poor.

Fair enough. But the reason I can't scrape up $100 is due to renting a nice house, making a car payment, keeping us in groceries, and paying off student loans. To me having all of that means that I'm not poor. It just means that at present I live paycheck to paycheck....

Right, after reading this entire thread (yes, ive been sitting here a while) I wanted to share my opinion.  A country should take care of its people regardless and not turn away the sick and injured or stick them with a unpayable bill.  I see the NHS as nothing short of wonderful.  YES, there are LONG waiting lists (ive experienced this first hand) but if you have an emergency, you are seen right away and in some cases bumped to the top of the list.  In real emergencies, the NHS is my hero.  I waited 6 months for an appointment for a biopsy... the reason I was given was 'because your 22 not 52' (older women are far more likely to develop breast cancer than me).. at the time this bothered me but in the end, they were right and me waiting may have given someone else an appointment that urgently needed it.  In the end, I was fine... had I not been fine I suppose I may have had a different opinion.. who knows... but I do know, had I been in the US without insurance, I'd still be wondering about that lump. 

I don't understand why having health insurance is not mandatory in the US. It's true that 47 millions people don't have insurance but a good half of these people just decide to use their money for something else because they think it's OK to file for bunkruptcy if they get sick and can't pay. That's wrong. I agree that it should be very hard to do.

Making something mandatory doesn't mean everyone will comply - just means that those who can't will become "outlaws" of a type.  Even more of a stigma - being too poor to afford health care isn't enough of one, I guess?

I never "decided" to use my money for other things - I kind of had to.  I spent it on things like food for my kids, petrol in the car so I could get to work, not to mention insurance and tax/tag on said car because that WAS mandatory.

I spent one year working 80+ hours a week so I could take on a job that had health care benefits so I could get my sons' eyes checked and their teeth looked at.  That was the only year I could "afford" to have insurance.

Of course, the trade off was that I hardly ever saw the kids themselves...

I really cannot believe, with all the first-hand stories of experiences living in the US and not having insurance that people have posted on this forum in the past, that anyone would even think that any of us just decided not to have health care, even though it was "affordable" - to others.

Well, yes. It's hard to be poor.

And yes - it really is hard to be poor.  Hard enough that those of us who have "been there" really don't need to be made to feel any worse for it.