How do you adapt and adjust?

Hopster, I just read your list, and then read it out loud to my husband. We both cracked up, because you listed just about everything I've griped about to him. AND he wishes Britain had the same. (Recycling, in particular, pricks a nerve with both of us. Not only do you have to drive 15 to 20 minutes just to put items in recycling bins, but, as you mentioned, they don't recycle plastic, far and away the most environmentally damaging and least degradable of all packaging. I won't even get INTO how much waste there is with fruit and veg packaging, especially with styrofoam.) I can only IMAGINE how much space dumpsites here take up with not only plastic, but also glass and aluminum that people can't bother to recycle--too long a drive, by UK standards.

Anyway, to comment on what t-mac implied about Americans being shallow if they cared about the items Hopster listed: What she listed was just the TIP of the iceberg. So why don't we list some more "substantial" issues:

1. Americans, in my humble opinion, are DRASTICALLY more friendly, more tolerant, more accepting, more generous, less racist, and less class-oriented than Brits are. I'm sure that could be a point of hot debate, but let's not bother with that. It's simply my opinion.

2. In my experience, Americans are absolute Anglophiles--loving all things British. The British mock Americans at every available opportunity. Being exposed to that once I moved here shattered all my illusions, and it hurt in an odd way, because I'd expected so much more. And I'm no child--I'm as sarcastic and ironic as any Brit (although I've read and heard repeatedly from the Brit media that Americans "don't get irony"). Wrong!

(I'll stop at that, lest the host and moderators get flooded with complaints about my "controversial" views.)

By now you should have read enough to know that I'm not alone in my perception of immediately being judged and/or dismissed by virtue of being American. I don't think all the other people who've commented on the same thing here are hallucinating. We live here with spouses, so we bite the bullet and try to take it in stride. But it still certainly bears commenting on.

I don't think this site was intended to say only good things about Britain, without pointing out obvious (and negative) truths at times. There are other American sites where you can get only happy, upbeat comments from Americans. Just do some research.

Suzanne

Unfortunately, this seems to have turned into an us vs them debate-old timers vs. relative newcomers.  It's been pointed out that maybe we've forgotten what it was like when we first moved here and how much trouble we had adjusting.  I think it's almost the opposite.  Myself, I look at how much the country has changed in the last 13 years and at first can't help thinking-it must be so much easier now.  For anyone who moved here more than ten or eleven years ago, they'll know what I'm talking about.  Flying was more expensive.  Phone calls were astronomical (both ways-US didn't get cheap long distance that long ago.)  There was no internet. No cable.  No digital.  And if you think you can't find American products now-I can remember how excited I was when POP-TARTS were introduced(which BBC Watchdog ran a huge campain against becuase people were burning themselves )  But instead of making it harder to adapt and adjust, I actually think it was easier.  We had to.  It was almost sink or swim. We had to make friends, fit in, use UK products.  
And for me, being here thirteen years, it's my home.  I've got a house, garden, English kids,friends, neighbours, routine.  It surprizes me sometimes what people miss, things I haven't thought about in years-or things I've never heard of.  What on earth is liquid smoke    Why would I NEED that?  I don't miss Target or Walmart-there weren't any near me before I moved here.  And yes, MaBear, I do find it has changed when I go home.  I feel out of place.  I find the noise and the fast pace jarring.  I find those huge stores and their vast array of products overwhelming.  I sometimes feel like a horse in a burning barn-someone needs to throw a bag over my head and lead me out of there.  I've gotten used to my tiny fridge and small kitchen.  I shop by week or even day.  But I know what's in my fridge-no bottles of pickles from 1987.  If it's reached it's use/by date it's out.  I'm amazed by the amount of food Americans buy-my sister's store cupboard looks like she's expecting Armageddon.  
As for convenience, I'm from rural Pennsylvania.  Yes, I've lived other places between living there and moving here.  When I go home that's where I go.  And I can't get used to driving 10 miles for a pint of milk.  My mom drives 45 miles to do a  big shop.  45 MILES!
And the size of everything!  When I go home I have to borrow my Mom and Dad's car and truck.  They're massive.  I feel like I'm driving a tank.  I have to park at the bottom of car parks because I feel so nervous in them.  
And who brought up parking.  Yes parking in malls is free-but it is here too.  But anytime I've parked in a town/city center in the states I've had to pay.  The fact that it's outrageous to pay to park at the hospital-I'll concede.  
Recycling-yes, we're twenty years behind.  But it is getting better.  I now have curbside for cans and paper and there's even plastic at Sainsbury's (that's half our rubbish ).  But there is a longer tradition here of recycling clothes and household stuff.  Car boot sales, jumble sales, charity shops, small ads, etc.  
And I think the UK is more environmentally aware in other ways.  The two people who I know who don't have a tumble dryer-it's for environmental and economical reasons.  Those are the reasons I don't have a dishwasher-do you know how many gallons of hot water those things waste?
I'm not going to touch on the English  being terrible people because frankly I can't understand why someone who hates it that much here doesn't move heaven and earth to get home.  Don't get angry, Suzanne, just an opinion.  
But I do think that saying all Americans are anglophiles is a bit of an overstatement.  I don't think most Americans care all that much.  And if they are, it's more because they think it's all Brideshead Revistited.  I've met my share of English people who LOVE America-but they're  usually about as fact based-they've been to Florida and think it's always sunny.  
I think that having this forum is wonderful-and it's been life changing for me.  It's filled a void that I didn't know I had.  I hope people continue to come here for support, advise, and freindship.  Moving to a foriegn country is extremely difficult, more difficult than people can imagine.  But that's what you're doing, you've got to adjust to living here, not make the country adjust to you.

Mindy,

I never meant to imply that I hate England. I've said many times that there is much I love about the UK. I honestly never get "angry" at anything anyone writes on here. Some people on here love living in England, some hate it, and some are undecided. But I can tell you this (and if I recall, you conceded that you hadn't been home for Christmas in 13 years): the two Christmases I've been back to the States, I've started crying with joy around the time the pilot announced we'd be landing in 20 minutes. And I've also cried with a grief I can't explain sitting on the plane two weeks later, staring out the window, and flying back here. Obviously, the U.S. isn't perfect, and England certainly has more now than it did when you first got here. But it doesn't change some very basic facts about the differences between the two countries. I'd like to think that no amount of time living here would ever dull me to what the U.S. has to offer, and what the U.S. is all about...

Suzanne

I never meant to imply that I hate England. I've said many times that there is much I love about the UK.

If this is true, then I'm sure I'm not the only person who's surprised.  Maybe you don't realize it, but the majority of your posts come across as very unhappy.  

Americans, in my humble opinion, are DRASTICALLY more friendly, more tolerant, more accepting, more generous, less racist, and less class-oriented than Brits are. I'm sure that could be a point of hot debate, but let's not bother with that. It's simply my opinion.

You've got to admit that this is a very strong statement that gives the impression that you don't like the place or it's people.  

I'm not saying this is a perfect place to live.  I've got my things that I'm unhapppy with too.  And in my heart I'm American and America is my home.  I think someone posted in another thread about wanting to be buried there, and I confess that's a promise I forced my husband to make years ago-that my ashes would go back to PA.  Can't explain it, and he doesn't understand it, but there it is.  

But, bottom line is, this ISN'T America.  Nor should it be.  It's a wonderful country in it's own right.  Alot of the changes in the last 13 years I for one wish had never happened.  

This is gonna sound as though I'm jumping on the proverbial bandwagon here Suzanne but believe me I'm not, I can really appreciate your patriotism and love for America but you really do sound unhappy and more than a little biased in some of your posts. This racist thing, where does that come from? Unless your living in the stronghold of the National Front why do you find the U.K such a racist place? In all the years I've lived there I must have missed that one. Growing up in a big city on the East Coast I have to admit I've seen a lot more of it here than I've ever witnessed over there. To be honest, I find the British to be MORE tolerant of other cultures than most other nations in Europe and yes, even here in America.
Another thing that seems to pop up not only in your threads but in others is how unfriendly they are. Sorry, but again I must have missed that one too. True, some Brits have a misconception of Americans ( thanks to the likes of Jerry Springer and here I agree with you, the BBC etc) but like anything else I find it to be more a curiosity thing than an issue of unfriendliness after all we cultivate our own relationships don't we? Again, I think your love for America is great and I like this site because of all of them, there seems to be less America bashing and bullying when people express their opinions but sometime discretion is the better part of valor when it comes to those opinions....Peace

regarding the comment about racism -- I have a sense that racism, sexism and class bias exists here and is tolerated to some degree.  I feel this way because it is not totally unacceptable to say some things that would be very "un-PC" back in the states.  Adultery is typical subject matter for television and film, there is a notion that "boys will be boys", there is a noticeable hierarchy of class, with overt disdain for the working-class.  I have heard negative comments about Pakistani's and people from Bangladesh ... but the worse thing I have heard is this:

I was talking to a young girl from Taiwan and she told me she feels the British are very prejudice.  One day a man on the street called her a "Chinese dog" as she passed him.  I am in Oxford, a university town with a highly diverse population and I would have thought that something that ugly could not happen here.  I am sure things like this happen everywhere in the world, including America.  But I was quite surprised that it could happen here in Oxford.  

I used to live in Oxford a little while ago (studied at the University for 5 years), and the story about the woman from Taiwan does not surprise me.

Oxford is home to one of the greatest universities in the world, it is beautiful, architecturally stunning, and has an intellectual and cultural richness that few places can match.  In addition, it has its own unique "Oxfordness" - an atmosphere that gives it the status of a living myth.

However, unfortunately, Oxford has a history stretching back over EIGHT centuries of conflict and resentment between "town and gown".  The town was there first.  Gown came later.  Jealously and resentment caused riots and violence, which at one stage in around the fourteenth century led a group to set up their own Univesity 80 miles East of Oxford on the river Cam.  The place since came to be known as Cambridge.

Today, you rarely hear of killings or violence, but the under-current of tension between town and gown remains.  You can feel it in the atmosphere.  It is almost impossible to imagine in such a multi-racial university that a student would make such a derogatory remark, but it is entirely possible that this individual wanted to take out his resentment against students on this unsuspecting individual.

I wouldn't take it as an indication that Oxford is a particularly racist place.  Most international students and visitors have the time of their lives there.

Anyway, to comment on what t-mac implied about Americans being shallow if they cared about the items Hopster listed

>>LOL<<  You are unbelievable!

I do like your signature-thing, though... the one about Miss Universe.

 Take care, and remember, I am not far from you, should you get in a jam, if you wish to trade numbers let me know, I am probably 15 minutes away.   My boys are bigger, 9, 11, 13, but we have a house full of boy stuff if you would need an American to chat with some day.  Cheers, Maureen- jammie smiley=hug.gif]

Thanks Maureen.  Have a great trip over Thanksgiving and give me a shout once you're back in the UK.  I'll send a PM w/ my e-mail and number.

Stephanie

Wow this topic has really gone on so i thought i would give my 2 pence.. hehe.. i have only been here a little over a month and haven't had one ounce of homesickness yet.. although i know its all new still and its always good when its new.. i just feel like whereever my husband is and we are together is home.. no matter if its here in england or in the states.. its what you make it.. home is where the heart is.. I decided before i ever came over that i would be as positive as possible.. yes there are things here that bug.. mostly the taxes.. i mean the petrol.. what a joke!  i spend loads of money getting to and from work a week.. but regardless.. the quality of life isn't too much different then the states.. i came from california so granted the weather was nicer there.. i can appreciate the seasons here.. i am happy about that..I have a job and work with some really cool people and am happy .. I even had someone make me thanksgiving dinner last night.. she felt bad for me and offered to do it.. so nice!  My continous complaint is no garbage disposals.. what is that all about? hehe..  I do think that the family culture is stronger and that there is way more focus on friends and family then there is in the states.. people seem alot less selfish here when it comes to that stuff... there is always time for your friends and family here.. in america everyone is too busy.. i like that here..

Stacey

I do think that the family
culture is stronger and that there is way more focus on friends and family
then there is in the states.. people seem alot less selfish here when it
comes to that stuff... there is always time for your friends and family
here.. in america everyone is too busy.. i like that here..

roflmao!  funnily enough, it's totally the opposite for me!  My family (which is quite large) is VERY family oriented...whereas my husband can't stand oh...pretty much his entire family (except for his Mum, who we both dote on)...so he sometimes finds it hard to understand why I miss my family so much, and find it hard to be sooo far away.    

Speaking of Thanksgiving...we've celebrated it every year since I came over here (my Mum-in-Law is the sweetest) and we're actually having his rellies (the ones he doesn't like lol) descend on us this weekend for it (we're celebrating a bit late to accomodate travel times)...so I really should log off and start vacuuming!  :O

wench

Wench,

Elle tells me you're an Iowan also and I swear I think this is why the family bond is such a big one. My family get together whenever there's the slightest whiff of an occasion and it's everyone - all family clogging together to gather around a vat of food.  It's been drilled into my head that that is "the way we always did it on the farm - no money but lots of food and family!"

I've now been involved with 2 Englishmen and their families are both the same - only gather if it's absolutely necessary and even that is an effort. I think it's down to the small houses that lots of families ignore the big gatherings.  I have found over the years that people I know tend to be more "immediate family" oriented rather than all and asundry. JMO though!!!

to be perfectly correct, I was an Iowan for a year.  But I grew up in the south, perhaps this reflects in my family values?  However, I'd give a lot to move back to Iowa, because it felt like home more than any place else I've ever lived (this is saying alot considering the longest I've lived in any one town is 5 years).  
wench

Hopster and Wench,

See now I thought the big family always getting together was an Italian thing but maybe I'm wrong......maybe it's a Midwestern Thing !!!

See my Italian family they originally lived in Chicago and they did quite well there working for a errrr well let's say a rather well known businessman at the time. Then when prohibitiooooooo errrrrrr the late 1920's rolled around they decided to head west you know because 'business' well it wasn't so good anymore.  

But what my point is, they started in the midwest too ...so maybe that's why we all come from big families who'll declare 'groundhogs day' a reason to get together if it means 20 or so people can get together to eat !

Are you following my Badda Bing errr thinking here ?  

(I really should go vacuum now...since I too will have the in-laws for the weekend....ugh)  

roflmao!  I'm totally digging your Badda Bing theory on Family relationships!  

You rock Feisty!  

wench