Pro & Con between life in UK & US

I'm an American that just moved to the UK from Southern California with my lovely British wife and four boys.  Here are my observations about the pros and cons of living in either Country:

Opinions should not be easily rendered unless expressed by a person that has had direct experience living in several regions within both Countries for an extended period of time.  There are so many perceptions that are based on anything but first-hand experiences.  With that in mind, I am going to say that I have been living in the UK for a short period of time in both the South and the North.  I left America because I was in a financial downward spiral that I could not have avoided, nor could I see a way out.  The reality is that I was a high income earner as a Technical Sales Manager for many years with a large corporation.  I was very successful until they decided to "fire" me, or make me "redundant" on my Birthday.  I was given one month's severance with no explanation other than the economic climate drove them to their decision.  Our medical and dental coverage was extended for a month with the option to pay for our own coverage at $700 per month.  I spent the next 5 months chasing over 500 job applications without even one offer for an interview.  Our savings quickly depleted, medical/dental coverage expired, and bills started to stack up.  Employment insurance only gave me 1/3 the income that I was on whilst working and expired without opportunity for extension. Not enough to pay our rent of $1725 per month...which is about average for California.  I had to send my son to a specialist for an MRI scan which wiped us out...another $4000 bill.  I could not afford to send my children to the doctors no matter even though they needed to be seen.  We could not pay our rent and were given 3 days notice of eviction.  There are no options other than extended stay hotels if you are lucky enough to have any cash to pay for it.  My family was literally out in the street within a 5 month period without any options for help.  This American nightmare is being replayed over and over again.  The street we lived on had every home but 3 vacated due to foreclosures and lost jobs.
  If you are in the UK and you complain about your Country I would suggest you spend some time in the United States.  Any company can make you redundant any time for any reason they see fit.  You do not have access to any REAL help financially no matter how hard you try to find work or how long you worked previously.  The UK has it right.  The American Government does not take care of "We The People."   I do not support taking care of those that want to abuse the system, but you should as a Country take care of those who have worked hard and been contributors to society as well as the less fortunate.  I am so grateful to the UK for the services available.  I work here and I still cannot believe I can go to the doctor and not pay a cent!  I really cannot believe it! LOL

That's not my opinion, that has been my reality.

I was born, raised and educated in the UK and then moved to the US where I have lived for 30 years. My story almost mirrors yours and is the reason I am starting to plan a return to my home country. I will not live like this any more.

Good luck to you.

Hi again..

Whilst it's true that you should 'personally' evaluate a country based on your own situation - I was pointing out the larger picture as a country on the whole, which usually is where people thinking along the lines of emmigrating think about.

When you look at the most popular destinations people choose to move permanently to, the USA is by far the most popular choice. I think it's followed by Canada, then closely UK and Australia (I think that's the order)

There's a reason why the USA is number 1 and why the other countries appear in their respective places - usually, citing reasons such as 'rugby' or 'regulations' or 'people are cleaner' (which sounds ludicrous!) are not the main reasons.

Economic opportunity, work and marriage probably make up the vast bulk of moves and the elements I pointed out are the ones which spring to mind initially. It's the 2nd steps which is where more personal evaluations come into place.

I think i've mentioned it previously, for me personally, I'd choose Canada to emmigrate to on the basis it takes the good parts of the UK, the good parts of the USA as it's basis - which for me is a very attractive destination, it's the secondary elements which need careful research to validate that ! which is what I'm always doing!

Cheers! DtM! West London & Slough UK!

And what is the U.S. Number 1 in?

For me, it's number one in not caring a jot about its people. For myself, I do not see it as being number 1 in anything.

I'll be doing the positives only!

US positives
-Wide highways and roads
-Lots of choice in regards to food
-Nice service
-Find it easier to talk to people/get directions/etc.
-Clean cities (generally...)
-I personally prefer US fashions to UK fashions
-Lots of variety of various things (I know that's vague but I mean food, clothing, store choices, house choices, etc.)
-The Fresh Market (this deserves its on bullet point)


UK positives
-Frequently running bus and train services
-Lots of interesting national newspapers
-Lots of things in walking distance of house
-Nectar card!
-Marks and Spencer simply food / food section of M&S
-I like the cooking shows better (Nigella ♥)
-Historic and older houses!
-Historic towns and cities

The quality of grocery store food in the UK is FAR superior to that in the U.S.

I'm an American that just moved to the UK from Southern California with my lovely British wife and four boys.  Here are my observations about the pros and cons of living in either Country:

Opinions should not be easily rendered unless expressed by a person that has had direct experience living in several regions within both Countries for an extended period of time.  There are so many perceptions that are based on anything but first-hand experiences.  With that in mind, I am going to say that I have been living in the UK for a short period of time in both the South and the North.  I left America because I was in a financial downward spiral that I could not have avoided, nor could I see a way out.  The reality is that I was a high income earner as a Technical Sales Manager for many years with a large corporation.  I was very successful until they decided to "fire" me, or make me "redundant" on my Birthday.  I was given one month's severance with no explanation other than the economic climate drove them to their decision.  Our medical and dental coverage was extended for a month with the option to pay for our own coverage at $700 per month.  I spent the next 5 months chasing over 500 job applications without even one offer for an interview.  Our savings quickly depleted, medical/dental coverage expired, and bills started to stack up.  Employment insurance only gave me 1/3 the income that I was on whilst working and expired without opportunity for extension. Not enough to pay our rent of $1725 per month...which is about average for California.  I had to send my son to a specialist for an MRI scan which wiped us out...another $4000 bill.  I could not afford to send my children to the doctors no matter even though they needed to be seen.  We could not pay our rent and were given 3 days notice of eviction.  There are no options other than extended stay hotels if you are lucky enough to have any cash to pay for it.  My family was literally out in the street within a 5 month period without any options for help.  This American nightmare is being replayed over and over again.  The street we lived on had every home but 3 vacated due to foreclosures and lost jobs.
  If you are in the UK and you complain about your Country I would suggest you spend some time in the United States.  Any company can make you redundant any time for any reason they see fit.  You do not have access to any REAL help financially no matter how hard you try to find work or how long you worked previously.  The UK has it right.  The American Government does not take care of "We The People."   I do not support taking care of those that want to abuse the system, but you should as a Country take care of those who have worked hard and been contributors to society as well as the less fortunate.  I am so grateful to the UK for the services available.  I work here and I still cannot believe I can go to the doctor and not pay a cent!  I really cannot believe it! LOL

That's not my opinion, that has been my reality.

Yes, I'd have to say that I was very thankful that although my husband and I were both made redundant last year, at least we were here in the UK, where it didn't turn into a nightmare situation like this. I was in the midst of a health problem, which would have been disastrous had I been living in the states and lost insurance coverage as well as my job. Also, we were given help through housing benefit and our jobseekers allowance, which kept us afloat until we both got jobs again a few months later.

I'm very grateful for a lot of things in the UK, including the NHS and the benefits we received during a difficult time for us, and I also definitely feel that I have more rights as an employee here (more holidays, better sickness policies) than I did in the US. My quality of life here is far better, but I realise that may be different for others.

Yes. I don't think the NHS is perfect, but I am very grateful for the fact that when I was at a job that stressed me so much it made me physically ill, I could just say "Take this job and shove it" and not have to worry about medical care.

hiya

The USA leads the world in things like Medical research and development, Pharmacueticals R&D, all the various scientific R&D. The country enjoys the highest GDP and also per capita earnings are I think the highest in the world.

I'm sure there's other aspects as well, and perhaps rankings etc do change slightly but overall the USA remains the worlds number 1 country overall.

Now individual circumstances like the situation above do highlight shortcomings, and to an extent I agree with the fact the USA, being so wealthy, should cover the health aspect better.

Now the NHS does get a mention, of course it does, and in certain situations it can be very welcome. I think there must be a distinction made that you are not always entitled to benefits etc and so is a fallacy to assume so. For instance, if you lose your relatively well paying job here, and if you have over a certain amount in savings, you won't be entitled to benefits. The NHS also doesn't cover absolutley everything, so if you do indeed get a problem that the NHS doesn't cover then you'd have to pay up the costs and if you don't have insurance, then you'd be in a difficult scenario.

Yes the UK's NHS is a good thing, however it does have major shortcomings as well - so long as you know about those as well is important.

Zabelba - I'm sorry to hear of your situation and what happened, it is a cruel world out there thats for sure. I can understand the frustrations you've mentioned and it does happen. However I'd disagree with you on saying 'the uk has it right' - there's many realities to the UK that show that. You mention for instance The US governement doesnt take care of it's people, well I'd say well in that respect, niether does the UK. UK citizens are amongst the highest taxed in the world and more of it's citizens are living a life of debt  than ever before. It infuriates many people who do indeed contribute by working hard and paying taxes when there's a sizeable and visible percentage of the population that sit around and live off benefits and play the system and abuse it. Time after time, people will say 'well make them work' to get access to their benefits, which I agree with - however, if you think about it, that's what the Capitalist way is, you work you get the rewards. If you choose not to work or abuse the system, then you'll be provided the most basic needs only. Will that happen in the UK? no it won't, the UK's Psyche of waiting for handouts is currently still ingrained (sp?) on many of the population.

Remember the UK is a 'mixed economy' which means it's part Capitalist, and part Communist, The USA is capitalist, so work hard, do things for yourself and you get the rewards. The Communist countries of the world hold all power, you put up and shut up and get given what you get given - the only benefit is that the state will provide you your food and shelter and medical etc.

There are a few other forums frequented by people far more knowledgeable than me about this kind of thing. There's one member in particular I remember who'd always type things up in response to situations like mentioned by Zabelba, which I found sometimes very harsh but on the large extent very true. If I typed up things that person mentioned here on this forum, I think I'd get banned! - I will point out, this particular forum wasn't some silly mouthing off type place, but a serious one and looking at some of the posters profiles, you could see they were highly experienced, well educated, often very mature and worked in postions of middle to high management in allsorts of industry sectors etc.

The underlying thing is, there's no one place that's better for everything, every time, all the time. I also don't really agree that opinions can't be extended unless you've lived in certain places for extended amounts of time. Nowadays it's just so much easier to find out about a place before being there to know about things and get feedback from allsorts of avenues. It certainly helps if you could indeed spend 6 months in another country before deciding to put roots down but nowadays that's just not really possible to do by most who may be looking to move. Back in the 1950s and 1960's when my parents and family members moved out of India, they came to the 'west' totally blind in many respects - they'd only 'heard' that opportunities existed in America and England. today's much faster pace of life also means the internet and travel is much more easily accessed.

Over the next year or two, the UK will get corrected from the vast mess the over spending from the last government created. This means of course ever decreasing disposable income for many of those working, and cutbacks to public over spending. My mum works for the Benefits agency, and there are measures in place including new ones to ensure less waste and benefits only going to those who actually deserve it. I'd be as bold as to say plenty of lazy idiots and parasites living off the state will soon be starving as they continue to choose not to work. Some of the stories my mum could tell you about what happens and is said by claimants will make your blood boil.

Lastly, apologies for the long post, however these sorts of topics are becoming ever more heated and commonplace all over the UK as many more people feel the results of the messy socialist policies that went distubingly too far and the attempts to tidy things up again by the current capitalist direction of the coalition government...

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!

In terms of unemployment, you noted you only got 1/3 of your salary.

In the UK everyone gets the same amount whether you earned a million or minimum wage.

You get 65.45 per week.  That's it.  If you have savings of 6,000 you get less.  If you have savings of 16,000 you get nothing.

You get that for 182 days.

Also, you get 1 weeks pay for each year you worked up to 400/week, or what your contract lists.

This doesn't include the NHS of course and you might get some housing benefits, but not if you have savings. 

I'm sure there's other aspects as well, and perhaps rankings etc do change slightly but overall the USA remains the worlds number 1 country overall.

I think saying any country is "number 1" is a bit off as it's such a subjective thing. The US may do more medical research than other countries (I'll take your word for it as I don't really know), but that isn't necessarily what makes a country "number 1". Neither do GDP or earnings. They may make the US "number 1" to you, but not necessarily to another person.

No disrespect to you, Dennis, but the things that make a country great to me are the things which the UK does best. If I didn't feel that way, I'd live somewhere else.

...
Remember the UK is a 'mixed economy' which means it's part Capitalist, and part Communist, The USA is capitalist, so work hard, do things for yourself and you get the rewards. The Communist countries of the world hold all power, you put up and shut up and get given what you get given - the only benefit is that the state will provide you your food and shelter and medical etc.

Actually, you'll find that the UK is socialist, not communist. And a successful socialist state embraces much of capitalism.

Yeah, I doubt many economists would describe the US as purely capitalist either.  Most would consider it a mixed economy.  There are things run by the state in the US that are run by private business in the UK and vice versa.  That's what makes the idea of having government provided insurance (or even healthcare) in the US the thing that turns it "socialist" a bit of a weird argument.

I think Dennis may have been referring to the extremes of capitalism and socialism. As in pure capitalism, where if you don't have a job and can't afford to buy food or pay rent you starve in the street because that's the way the free market works.  In reality, pure capitalism and pure socialism/communism do not exist. They only exist in theory.  






edited to remove quote of a removed post

Moderator Note:
I have removed off-topic comments. Please keep your posts to the topics at hand and not comments about the posters.

Hiya

Sounds as though things may have been added that got a bit out of hand?!

Chary - Yes, I agree with what you say there, hence I've always said that when it comes to comparisons, usually the first aspects looked at will be the higher level things. It's after that where personal situations come into play. There are different ways of measuring, but on the highest levels, a country's economic standing, quality of life and standard of life, GDP per capita. In those rankings, the US is number 1 for the most extent. I think Switzerland has a higher GDP per capita for instance, but it's a tiny country. The recent posting from the person who lost his job and everything else and moved here (I think) is part of a real minority of cases where coming to another country is possible in that situation. As bookgrl points out, I think it's a fallacy for people to 'assume' the UK has a state system that'll look after you regardless, the simple fact remains it doesn't.

With regards to definition of the UK's political stance. Then yes, we here are part of a 'Mixed Economy' and in simple terms that does indeed mean a mixture of Capitalist and Communist systems. Of course, there is no such thing as a 'pure' capitalist or 'pure' communist country, it seems nowadays it's a combination of them both to varying degrees in most countries around the world. But for definition purposes, The USA is a free market based economy and somewhere like the old Soviet Union/China/North Korea are Communist economies. The UK isn't either, and so is a 'Mixed Economy'

In a nutshell - nowhere is perfect to live, for most people thinking about a move, the high level factors are looked at first and then the secondary more personal aspects are considered to help evaluate if a potential move is indeed good for them or not and those reasons vary usually between Work/Business, Job transfers, Finding a partner/Marriage when it comes to long term moves over. To usually a much lesser extent, there are those where personal situations override the higher level factors when considering a move.

cheers! DtM! West London & Slough UK!

Dennis, why do you persist in using communist when I believe you mean socialist to describe western economies? Communism is more of a political belief/system than an economic system, and what's found here (and in other western societies) is a socialist-capitalist blend. I'd not call the UK government communist, as you state above.


The US is also not number one in GDP (per capita). It is ninth on the list from the IMF, World Bank and the CIA Factbook. (source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita , one source of many).

Hiya,

Evilshell et al - As is often stated, the USA is built on a 'free market' economy. Here's a pasted couple of paragraphs to describe;

(from the wiki)Capitalism is a broad economic system where competition in a free market determines the price, production and consumption of goods through the invisible hand of supply and demand reaching efficient market equilibrium. Capital, property and enterprise are privately owned and managed for a profit.

New enterprises may freely gain market entry without State restriction. Employment and wages are determined by a labour market that will result in some unemployment. Government and Judicial intervention are employed at times to change the economic incentives for people for various reasons. The capitalist economy will likely follow a business cycle of economic growth along with a steady cycle of small booms and busts.

The opposite to that is Communism and that descriptor is;

(from the wiki)
Communism is the evolution of socialism so that the central role of the State has 'withered away' and is no longer necessary for the functioning of a planned economy. All property and capital are collectively owned and managed in a communal, classless and egalitarian society. Currency is no longer needed, and all economic activity, enterprise, labour, production and consumption is freely exchanged "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs".

There's no political system beyond these two.

(from the wiki) Socialism refers to the various theories of economic organization which advocate either public or direct worker ownership and administration of the means of production and allocation of resources.

(also from the wiki) Communism is a sociopolitical movement that aims for a classless and stateless society structured upon common ownership of the means of production, free access to articles of consumption, the end of wage labour and private property in the means of production and real estate. The exact definition of communism varies, and it is often mistakenly used interchangeably with socialism; however, Marxist theory contends that socialism is just a transitional stage on the way to communism.

So Socialism sits to a lesser extent than communism but is 'biased' that way rather than towards the Capitalist system.

I've also not stated the UK is 'Communist' - I've stated that the UK is a 'Mixed Economy'

In more modern times, as there's been less and less Communist countries left in the world, there's been a shift to 'Socialist' economies adopted by many countries. It's that shift where the world is today

(from the wiki)

There is not one single definition for a mixed economy, but the definitions always involve a degree of private economic freedom mixed with a degree of government regulation of markets. The relative strength or weakness of each component in the national economy can vary greatly between countries. For some state, there is not a consensus on whether they are capitalist, socialist, or mixed economies.

So, in modern times it's those three, Capitalist, socialist or Mixed Economies. The UK is under the 'mixed economy' out of the three, the USA is under capitalist and other countries (I don't know which!) are under the socialist one.

GDP - I'll rephrase, yes as per the charts, other much smaller countries have higher GDP per capita figures than the USA, so in that extent, I'm incorrect when it comes to individual people and their earnings etc. Perhaps go back up one level and look at which countries have the 'largest' economies as a whole, at which point it goes to the USA. So at that level again, the G8 or G20 group of richest nations, then the USA leads again. In some contexts the USA can't be called number one, perhaps in the way I initially said, in other contexts it can.

It's that 'secondary' personal level where this forum and others like it, people and families etc look at when deciding suitability to consider a move. In some (many) cases such as Chary's and Mrs Robinson (and others! don't think I've forgotten you all!) indeed, aspects of the UK suit them much better in their individual scenario's and I fully accept that. What I always mention in threads like these, is for the individual to look at their personal scenario and compare things perhaps firstly at the top level aspects of a country, and then into the secondary aspects.

I know there's a tendancy on this forum for the ones who love the UK, as they're now here etc within their personal scenarios, I also put forward that a balanced view should be put forward as well and some of the recent posts make it sound as though the UK will look after you no matter what in certain situations, when the reality is, it doesn't, but arguably, to a better extent that the US.

The topic of the thread is pro's and con's between life in the UK and USA so best to include all aspects right?!

Disclaimer - I'm not intending to cause any offence or personal attacks or anything, I don't claim to be a fountain of knowledge with political things, I'm a logic Driven Business person/Engineer/Computer bod and here to discuss and hopefully learn more too one of my goals is again to be an employer, so who knows!..   might be one of you guys boss!

Cheers, DtM! West London & Slough UK!