Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows - the SPOILER thread!

i was content with the ending, but the epilogue was just too gushy/mushy for me. 

Not only a pass the bucket moment but also poorly written.

The ending as it was was fine.

How'd the sword come back from Griphook?  I mean, Snape gave Harry the real sword, which the goblin took whilst they were in Bellatrix's vault.

How'd the sword come back from Griphook?  I mean, Snape gave Harry the real sword, which the goblin took whilst they were in Bellatrix's vault.

Neville pulled it out of the Sorting Hat. Remember the sword of Gryffindor is always supposed to come to a Gryffindor in need- that's how Harry got ahold of it however many books ago that was...

eta- I looked it up- Harry pulls the sword out of the Sorting Hat in the Chamber of Secrets.

i thought it was great how neville (the other boy that the prophesy could have been speaking about) helped defeat voldemort in the end.  he really grew on me as a character.

could someone explain again how harry came to be the true owner of the elder wand?  confused a bit on that one.

could someone explain again how harry came to be the true owner of the elder wand?  confused a bit on that one.

Gridewald: defeated by Dumbledore
Dumbledore: disarmed by Draco atop the Astronomy Tower *before* Snape cast the AK
Draco: disarmed by Harry during the escape from Malfoy Manor (when Dobby was fatally wounded)

At least this is what JKR's reasoning is.  Personally, I think the idea that Harry disarming Draco of his regular ward (not the Elder Wand) at Malfoy Manor is a bit of a weak link - the idea being, I guess, that now that Harry controls Draco's wand, he controls all other wands that Draco might control?  Personally, I'd have gone with "Draco controls the Elder Wand, and kills Voldie" or "Draco controls the Elder Wand and so Voldie can't use it, and Harry kills him with Draco's wand, which works perfectly fine and doesn't share a twin core" but I'm not JKR, am I? 

I suspect it was all leading up to Harry being able to use the Elder Wand to repair his holly and phoenix feather one at the end - as well as setting up the ability to make Snape's death utterly.  effing.  pointless. 

question- was dumbledore using the elder wand when draco disarmed him?  If so, I'd like to know how the heck that happened as the elder wand is supposed to be unbeatable, right?  And the wand should have been working perfectly for dumbledore since he was the rightful owner (unlike Voldemort.)

question- was dumbledore using the elder wand when draco disarmed him?  If so, I'd like to know how the heck that happened as the elder wand is supposed to be unbeatable, right?  And the wand should have been working perfectly for dumbledore since he was the rightful owner (unlike Voldemort.)

I think perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the Elder Wand always wins in a duel, and Draco and Dumbledore weren't dueling - in fact, Dumbledore wasn't making any offensive OR defensive moves at that point, as he was already dying.  Let me check my references...brb. 

question- was dumbledore using the elder wand when draco disarmed him?  If so, I'd like to know how the heck that happened as the elder wand is supposed to be unbeatable, right?  And the wand should have been working perfectly for dumbledore since he was the rightful owner (unlike Voldemort.)

My take is that Dumbledore allowed himself to be overtaken by Draco as part of his "I'm-dying-anyway-what-the-heck" plan.  The wand bends (no pun intended) to the will of its master, and I believe that Dumbledore wanted to allow the wand to be 'taken'.

Personally, I think the idea that Harry disarming Draco of his regular ward (not the Elder Wand) at Malfoy Manor is a bit of a weak link - the idea being, I guess, that now that Harry controls Draco's wand, he controls all other wands that Draco might control? 

I believe that Harry became the 'master' of the Elder Wand simply because he defeated Draco.  I don't think it has anything to do with which wand Harry took from Draco, simply that Harry overpowered him.  After all, as Ollivander said, no one really knows how wands work.

Okay.

From DH, p. 331:

"So the oldest brother, who was a combative man, asked for a wand more powerful than any in existence: a wand that must always win duels for its owner, a wand worthy of a wizard who had conquered Death."

From HBP, p. 545-6:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted: "Expelliarmus!"

Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the Tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.  He could not understand how it had happened - Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -

Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood ... Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilised Harry, and the second he had taken to perform the spell had cost him the chance of defending himself.

Standing against the ramparts, very white in the face, Dumbledore still showed no sign of panic or distress.  He merely looked across at his disarmer and said, "Good evening, Draco."

So I'm thinking that the fact that Dumbledore wasn't dueling Draco is what's important, here.  But honestly, JKR, you mean to tell me that Dumbledore's never been disarmed in his life until now?  Using her reasoning, the wands of the DA members alone must have changed ownership/allegiances hundreds of time!

Neville pulled it out of the Sorting Hat. Remember the sword of Gryffindor is always supposed to come to a Gryffindor in need- that's how Harry got ahold of it however many books ago that was...

eta- I looked it up- Harry pulls the sword out of the Sorting Hat in the Chamber of Secrets.

Well, yes, I read the book.  I realise that's what's supposed to happen.

But that sword was not at Hogwarts at all and in the possession of Griphook.  It may also have been stolen by Godric Gryffindor.

Then all the sudden it shows up again?  Seems a bit far-fetched.

Also, I thought at the end of book 2 that Dumbledore made sure the Chamber of Secrets was sealed up.

I did like the way the diadem was destroyed, however.

Well, yes, I read the book.  I realise that's what's supposed to happen.

eep, sorry. I actually missed the fact that Neville got the sword from the Sorting Hat on my first read through so I was totally puzzled about it as well until I went back and re-read, so I thought the same thing might have happened to you, that's all.

My personal theory is that there's an enchantment on the sword that makes it accessible through the Sorting Hat to a worthy Gryffindor- far fetched maybe, but it is fantasy!

My personal theory is that there's an enchantment on the sword that makes it accessible through the Sorting Hat to a worthy Gryffindor- far fetched maybe, but it is fantasy!

and magic.

So I'm thinking that the fact that Dumbledore wasn't dueling Draco is what's important, here.  But honestly, JKR, you mean to tell me that Dumbledore's never been disarmed in his life until now?  Using her reasoning, the wands of the DA members alone must have changed ownership/allegiances hundreds of time!

Exactly why I thought it would have been a better ending if Harry had figured out a way to (magically, of course!) force Voldy to feel remorse for all the suffering he'd caused, which would have killed him.

I had to promptly go back and reread book 6 to sort through all the who-beat-who-with-what-wand-when nonsense. Now I may have to read 7 again!

My personal theory is that there's an enchantment on the sword that makes it accessible through the Sorting Hat to a worthy Gryffindor- far fetched maybe, but it is fantasy!

It does seem to be a case where the use that wizards have put the sword to has trumped the goblin claim to ownership. Rather interesting...

Am I the only one who thought that Harry sacrificing himself for everyone else was a bit of a Jesus allusion? I mean, he rises from the dead... I found that a little corny.

Also, I thought the explanation of the ownership of the elder wand to be a bit weird too.

Oh! And I was TOTALLY confused when Snape died. What was up with the silver liquid leaking out? I'm assuming those were his memories, but why did that happen? I don't recall it happening to any other wizards... Can a wizard apparently just purposely leak all their memories out?

I thought that Snape was leaking his memories out on purpose so that Harry could see them and realize that he wasn't a traitor.  It's been a while since I've read the rest of the series- anyone remember how Harry gets ahold of the other memories that he's seen in the Pensieve in earlier books?

But that sword was not at Hogwarts at all and in the possession of Griphook.  It may also have been stolen by Godric Gryffindor.

Then all the sudden it shows up again?  Seems a bit far-fetched.

Based on Bill Weasley's explanation of how goblins view ownership, I'm guessing that was JKR's way of telling us that the sword probably wasn't stolen by Godric Gryffindor, but was purchased by him (therefore making him its rightful owner).  Therefore, as with Harry in CoS, Neville's need for it caused it to appear in the Sorting Hat.

Can a wizard apparently just purposely leak all their memories out?

Both Dumbledore and Snape had pulled them out at will in previous books, so I don't see why he couldn't make that happen.

I thought that Snape was leaking his memories out on purpose so that Harry could see them and realize that he wasn't a traitor.

I actually think that he did it not to show Harry that he was on the side of good, but to give Harry a reason to willingly walk to his death (and thereby fulfilling his agreement with Dumbledore).  I honestly believe that Snape didn't care one iota what Harry thought about him.