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Topic: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US  (Read 3026 times)

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Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 04:16:48 PM »
I agree with your husband about paper requirements, but the reality is departments are starting to use it as a way of standardizing the PhD. KK, I wish your husband well in terms of staying in academia, but it's not going to be easy for him. He'll have a better chance in the US just because of the sheer volume of jobs compared to the UK, but it's still not going to be easy. I worked with post docs who typically had to do more than one to even be considered for an interview. There is a super saturation of PhDs (in all fields) and not enough academic positions to sustain them all. Universities are changing the way they employ lecturers with the secure tenure position almost non-existant. Once a professor retires from his tenured position, universities are finding that they can fund multiple part time faculty with that available money, increasing the number of classes they can offer and increasing the number of students they can accept, which means more money for the university! They're always looking out for number one of course. It will be interesting to see how higher education will be affected by this over time.


Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 04:33:46 PM »
KK, I wish your husband well in terms of staying in academia, but it's not going to be easy for him.

Thanks.  I think it's good that he has friends who have recently gone through the transition from their postdoc(s) because it gives him a better idea as to what his chances are.  If he's not able to stay in academia, I truly think he'd be happy (eventually) doing research anywhere, but he really has his heart set on being a PI and also teaching.


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Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2007, 04:42:20 PM »
My husband is a PhD candidate in geology/geomorphology. He's lucky in that his PhD topic, while an interest area of his supervisors at one time, is no longer his main focus. So all DH's work/training/research is his own and people in the know will be aware that his supervisor is not going to be able to take a lot of credit for it. And unlike many of his fellow UK PhD candidates, he is published and has several other papers in the works. He also has a lot of grants under his belt. I hope all of this will help set him apart a bit down the road. It's all so stressful.
When I was 5 years old, my mother always told me that happiness was the key to life. When I went to school, they asked me what I wanted to be when I grew up. I wrote down ‘happy’. They told me I didn’t understand the assignment, and I told them they didn’t understand life. ~ John Lennon


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Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2007, 04:58:27 PM »
I think the publishing requirement is a good one regardless of impact factor.  As a PhD student, publishing their own work should be a part of their training.  You cannot survive in science without publishing.  As a student, it is more about the exercise of publishing rather than the impact of the journal.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, but the fact is that some research groups are much more efficient at publishing than others. I finished my PhD with only a couple of publications, in decent but not fabulous journals. But the reality is that I was working almost entirely on my own, with very little help or input from my advisor. It wasn't training, it was being tossed in at the deep end and expected to swim. The flipside, of course, is that I came out of my PhD functioning at a much higher level than many of my peers who have more impressive publication lists.

On the subject of US vs UK PhDs, this is an issue that I have very conflicted feelings about. I think the US system, when it works, does seem to produce PhDs who are more invested in their own research and better prepared to be independent researchers. When it doesn't work, though, it wastes colossal amounts of time and produces people who are bitter and cynical and either abandon research entirely or go on to torture their own grad students. The UK system is a bit kinder, I think, and doesn't interfere as much with people getting on with their lives.

The comparison between me and my British officemate is pretty stark. We're almost the same age--she's actually a bit younger. But she finished her PhD and started a postdoc two years earlier than me, and she and her husband own a house and two cars and just had a baby.

On my more depressed days I sometimes think that I've got the worst of both worlds by doing an American PhD and a UK postdoc.


Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2007, 05:05:54 PM »
The comparison between me and my British officemate is pretty stark. We're almost the same age--she's actually a bit younger. But she finished her PhD and started a postdoc two years earlier than me, and she and her husband own a house and two cars and just had a baby.

My husband frequently comments that it feels like our life is on hold.  No house, no car, and no kids yet.  He gets depressed because he's 33 and by far the oldest in the lab (of the postdocs and PhD students). 

On my more depressed days I sometimes think that I've got the worst of both worlds by doing an American PhD and a UK postdoc.

I've heard my husband say almost the exact same thing.


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Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2007, 05:19:38 PM »
My husband frequently comments that it feels like our life is on hold.  No house, no car, and no kids yet.   
Funny, that's exactly what I say! We're the same: no house, no car, no kids. *sigh* :-\\\\


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Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2007, 11:07:13 PM »
I managed to read the article at uni this afternoon - I thought it brought up some interesting points.

I actually had no idea that US PhDs were so focused on publishing until a few months ago. Since it doesn't seem to be encouraged so much here, I also thought that publishing was something that PhD students almost weren't 'allowed' to do - like you had to have had several years' research experience after a PhD before you would be knowledgable enough to publish something good enough.

However, now I am feeling quite positive about my PhD in the US - although I am determined not to take 6-8 years to complete it (I only have 4 years of funding anyway) - because luckily my research masters has given me some extra opportunities: I have been named first author on an abstract/poster presentation submitted to the AGU (American Geophysical Union) Fall Meeting in San Francisco next month (although I am unable to attend - my supervisor is speaking on my behalf), and when I finally finish my thesis, we are also planning on publishing a paper on my research (for which I will also be first author).

In contrast, a friend of mine is 2.5 years through a 4-year Computational Physics PhD (combined with an MSc), has not published anything yet and has just discovered that someone else beat her to it by publishing on the same subject. As a result, her PhD project is now pretty much null and void and her only options are to use her research so far towards her MSc and possibly an MPhil and then get a job, or start a new PhD from scratch - with no funding!



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Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2007, 10:05:36 AM »
My husband frequently comments that it feels like our life is on hold.  No house, no car, and no kids yet.  He gets depressed because he's 33 and by far the oldest in the lab (of the postdocs and PhD students). 

Oh, Honey, it's because your life IS on hold.  :P  We've been living like this for almost 20 years now.  We went ahead and had the kids though.  I wasn't going to put that on hold.  It's been difficult but I certainly don't regret ever having them. 

If DH had finished his PhD 3 years earlier, he would have a job and he'd be set.  things have changed soooo much in the last 10 years in science that he is now stuck in the chasm of the lost generation of scientists.  Nothing for him is straightforward because they keep changing the rules. 

He started on the path that should have led him to a good faculty position but that path was totally annihilated  so he's stuck.  And pretty much everyone else in his graduating year is as well.  Unless you have someone who will pull the strings for you, you live in this strange limbo. 

But, on the bright side...  I had the head of research at a very big Pharma co say to me, "it's not all bad.  Look at the life experience you're getting.  that is more valuable than anything."  Yeah, easy for him to say from his 10 000 sq ft house in San Diego... 
Riding the rollercoaster of life without a seat belt!


Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2007, 11:32:20 AM »
We went ahead and had the kids though.  I wasn't going to put that on hold.  It's been difficult but I certainly don't regret ever having them. 

We're slowly realizing that there's never going to a perfect time for kids and have decided we'll start trying as soon as we return to the U.S., even if we're returning to a second postdoc.

From my perspective on the outside, it seems to be a strange and crazy field.  One that people only stay in because of their love for what they do.


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Re: Article on Science PhDs in the UK vs US
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2007, 11:54:49 AM »

From my perspective on the outside, it seems to be a strange and crazy field.  One that people only stay in because of their love for what they do.

I had no concept  of how crazy/immoral/ruthless/strange/cruel/exhilarating/fascinating it was until I started to work in the field.  I guess if you survive in Science, you can pretty much survive anything.

One thing is for sure, the generation just below the baby boomers are going to be one tough group and extremely well trained scientists.  If they ever get to actually work as real scientists. 
Riding the rollercoaster of life without a seat belt!


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