Gentle Reminder: Citizenship Review

i think that they are so upset with eu immigrants who keep on coming here and  they have no control over and cant stop them, so they decided to  have control over non-eu immigrants cos its the easiest. that explains it.

That's what Mr. Moggs and I think as well.  Maybe it's way off base, but when people feel threatened by EU migration, they pressue their politicians to do something, and this is the answer the politicians come up with.

It's frustrating to people who have a legitimate, loving relationship.  I didn't marry my husband to come to the UK.  I married him because we loved each other.  We've been through a lot, and the only reason I was considering dual citizenship was to finally be able to live without the pressures of immigration status eternally looming over our heads.  We've been separated too many times and have spent too long apart.  I was going to feel a bit of relief when I got my ILR, but if they are going to be changing what the meaning of "indefinite" is, I wonder if they are going to put other conditions on it as well as "indefinite as long as you stay married".

How are they going to monitor marriages?  I mean, will we have to continue to provide mail proving that we are living together?  Will there be "recertifications" of ILRs if this becomes a real proposal?  Or will they just rely upon people to either turn their exes in or leave on their own accords? I mean, I don't plan on leaving my husband, but I wonder how the implimentation of a proposal like that would affect couples that are still together.

Don't get me wrong, I am grateful to the UK for letting me live here.  We couldn't have done this in the US as I lacked a sponsor.  Just really worried at this point.

At UKY, we have a dim view on "earned citizenship" because much of the constituency here are young parents raising a family.  And we can't be doing with homemakers being denied citizenship because they were raising their children instead of doing community service.

Don't forget those of us who are too busy for community service because we have been working full time and paying taxes to the UK government.

Don't forget those of us who are too busy for community service because we have been working full time and paying taxes to the UK government.

and have kids! how the hell am I suppose to do community service when during the day I'm at home with my daughter while my husband works,,and when he gets home, I'm straight out the door going to my job!

I agree that earned citizenship shouldn't be.  When you're already an active and contributing member of society I don't get what community service proves.  What happen to community service being used as punishment for lesser crimes??  Is that not done in the UK, like it is here? 
  Wonder if this will affect the long term marriages like mine, that we were married for 5 years in the US, plan to move there by FLR and then take the Life in the UK test right away and apply for ILR as soon as possible after that?  This is royally going to screw up a ton of people.

This is really useful feedback.  Moon, would elaborate a bit more about the EU thing they are upset about?

Sweetpeach et al, would you elaborate a bit more on the notion of "already contributing member of society" thing?

Quite useful!

This is really useful feedback.  Moon, would elaborate a bit more about the EU thing they are upset about?

I don't mean to speak for Moon, but the people who've I've met who are anti-immigration are very concerned about EU migration (in particular Poland).  New members of the EU are a significant migrant population, at least in terms of what is visable.  Since they are allowed to live and work here under EU laws, UK immigration can't do much about it.  But they can limit immigration with non-EU countries.

I don't know how much of it is exagerated in the media, and how much is a reality, but people like my sister-in-law rant nonstop about Polish people coming in and taking jobs, using resources, and putting strains on schools.  I am sure when she writes to her MP, she calls them immigrants and not EU nationals. 

I bet if you spoke to the average person in London and they admitted to having concerns about immigration, they would name Eastern Europeans as their main area of concern and not Asians, Africans, or people from the Americas.  It would just be a lot harder to limit EU migration.

I think it's all a product of allowing the Daily Mail and similarly un-intellectual alarmist papers to dictate government policy, as my husband says.  Most of the thinking and informed people I know--which is generally most of the people I meet in casual, ordinary situations, and not just the over-educated people I hang out with as a PhD student--don't really think that the country is being overrun by immigrants who must be stopped, particularly not Americans. 

The thing that really irks me about most stories on immigration is that they paint *everyone* as an illegal, assylum seeker, or a benefit cheat.  The papers don't report on how much more we have to pay in fees, problems getting hired because you aren't European and employers therefore think that they can't hire your, or the stress involved in feeling constantly threatened by changes in policy that seem to be so utterly pointless and unfair.  Can you imagine the uproar if they started imposing a community service requirement on British people?

Garry, are the labour unions going to be involved in the consultations around community service?

I can't imagine that they would be happy with the idea of large numbers of people working for no pay.

ManderW, this touches on one of the things that worries me.

Immigrants in the Family Formation Programme are sometimes sitting ducks for everything that happens in the Asylum and Refuge programme and in the EU Enlargement.  Both of those heightened sham marriages and put additional stress on public services, and not coincidentally both of those gave all immigrants a bad rap.

The Government, riding the wave of a sour public mood (which they created and fueled by the way), does nothing at all to clarify or to educate the British public that a fiance is different from a bogus asylum seeker.  It doesn't suit their agenda to do so, and that's what irks me.

And to sweetpeach  , of course the unions will not take part in the consultations.  They don't have to because they are backbone of Labour in the first instance...

I don't mean to speak for Moon, but the people who've I've met who are anti-immigration are very concerned about EU migration (in particular Poland).  New members of the EU are a significant migrant population, at least in terms of what is visable.  Since they are allowed to live and work here under EU laws, UK immigration can't do much about it.  But they can limit immigration with non-EU countries.

agreed to that .
plus the fact that the average british doesnt realize  the fact that the eu citizens have got free movement within the the eu....   they are : "all bloody immigrants knicking our jobs taking our public funds"  . when i get asked , ppl get really surprised about all the paper work that i had to go through to come here as a spouse and still going through the never ending process . they think the uk is an open door. i say yes : only to eu citizens not anyone else....

i bet one day will come when you can not naturalize as a british citizen. you are either born brit or not. i think we will all witness to see this day in our life time.

when i get asked , ppl get really surprised about all the paper work that i had to go through to come here as a spouse and still going through the never ending process . they think the uk is an open door. i say yes : only to eu citizens not anyone else....

Just a note to add that even my own family and friends are surprised by this.  My husband was talking to his good friend the other night, who is one of those over-educated types AND involved in a lot of charity work that is immigration-related, and he was surprised to hear about all the paperwork, expenses, and various visa applications that I will have to go through in the next few years if I want to stay here and live with my husband, let alone become a British citizen.  He thought that I was eligible for a British passport automatically because I married a Brit in the C of E.

Maybe a massive education campaign on the realities of immigration, regardless of whether it's people from the EU, visa nationals, legal, illegal or otherwise, is what is really needed. 

I think there may also be some animosity because we see our "fellow EU members" France and Germany NOT having to accept any and all who cross their borders, and wonder why the UK cannot simply do the same. 

And I agree with Mander about the fact that there should be more wide-spread education about the different types of immigrants and their paths into the UK.

Just a note to add that even my own family and friends are surprised by this.  My husband was talking to his good friend the other night, who is one of those over-educated types AND involved in a lot of charity work that is immigration-related, and he was surprised to hear about all the paperwork, expenses, and various visa applications that I will have to go through in the next few years if I want to stay here and live with my husband, let alone become a British citizen.  He thought that I was eligible for a British passport automatically because I married a Brit in the C of E.

Maybe a massive education campaign on the realities of immigration, regardless of whether it's people from the EU, visa nationals, legal, illegal or otherwise, is what is really needed. 

Amen!!!  Almost every single person I give the visa story to is surprised at the complexity, expense, and effort involved.

motion seconded or thirded!  even well-educated people i work with are shocked at the cost of the multiple visas i need to live & work here. 

While I agree that people seem to be shocked at how hard it is for me to live in the UK legally, is it really that surprising? The US has a system that is difficult as well, we don't allow people to just come over and live, legally, without jumping through hoops as well, and paying high fees, so should it really be that surprising?