British ventilation

That would be a vent about 4 inches square, or equivalent.   Does that look about right for what you have fitted?

The openings are circular and are about 4-5" in diameter.

Only if he's installing them for remuneration, i.e. effectively as a business.   It's quite legal for a non-CORGI person to install gas appliances in his own property (or to help family etc.).

Well, they are installed for remuneration ultimately, as it's a property rental business. And based on what I've read on the CORGI site, Cait appears to be right: i have the right to request the inspection certificate. It's a bit delicate in this case since it's a father-son relationship and since they've been so accommodating and friendly thus far. But I do think I should ask for it. (This young landlord should probably wise up about what kind of business he's in in any case.)

In the meantime, I made an important discovery about the upper floor vents: they can be closed. This morning I felt a blast of cold air coming through one and reached up to see how hard it might be to pull off the cover, and the thing slid shut! Would have been nice if someone had told me that when I moved in two months ago! I also decided to block the lower vents (using a simple combination of plastic and weatherstrip - something easily removed) and to stop using the gas fires. Finally, sent a note to the manufacturers asking them to explain the precise purpose of the vents.

The openings are circular and are about 4-5" in diameter.

That sounds about right for the specified ventilation area.

In the meantime, I made an important discovery about the upper floor vents: they can be closed.

A little knob on the front which slides or turns?

If it were your own property, not used in conjunction with a tenancy, then I'd agree with you.

You might have a point if the installation was done while the house was actually under tenancy, as I know there are all the extra requirements for gas in rented property with which I'm not that familiar.  If it was done before it was rented out though, I can't see that any of those would apply with regard to installation, although obviously the annual checks and similar rules would come into force when the rental started.

The main point I was trying to make is that there is no absolute prohibition on a non-CORGI person installing gas appliances under any circumstances as is commonly believed.

By the way, the guidance leaflets from H.S.E., local councils, etc. often exaggerate requirements, so can't be relied upon to be a precise summary of the law.  That's certainly the case with the new electrical section of the building regulations, where many councils are trying to impose conditions which have no legal basis.

A little knob on the front which slides or turns?

No - the grill itself simply slides over - nothing in the design to make this obvious.

The main point I was trying to make is that there is no absolute prohibition on a non-CORGI person installing gas appliances under any circumstances as is commonly believed.

By the way, the guidance leaflets from H.S.E., local councils, etc. often exaggerate requirements, so can't be relied upon to be a precise summary of the law.

Point taken, and a good thing to know.

Thanks to all for the input and feedback.

RH

Just following up Cait's point about a landlord's responsibilities, here are three links from CORGI:

http://www.trustcorgi.com/consumer/Documents/Tenants%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

http://www.trustcorgi.com/consumer/iamatenant.htmx

http://www.trustcorgi.com/consumer/requestacertificate.htmx

Oh, and thanks, Cait, for the link - that's a useful document to show to my landlord.

RH

I was just talking about this with my dad while I was in the US. He says it's important for a house to 'breathe'. You think that it should be sealed up tight so the heat won't escape, but in fact vents in the attic or upper levels of the house are important and can reduce condensation/mold, and allow the heat to flow more evenly through the house. Our house never felt drafty, but again, the vents were in the attic.

I was just talking about this with my dad while I was in the US. He says it's important for a house to 'breathe'. You think that it should be sealed up tight so the heat won't escape, but in fact vents in the attic or upper levels of the house are important and can reduce condensation/mold, and allow the heat to flow more evenly through the house. Our house never felt drafty, but again, the vents were in the attic.

As far as I can see, there is no ventilation for the attic, which is perhaps why the north roof is covered with moss? This seems to be very common on British roofs, though, without them being particularly worried by it (remember the Elton John lyric: "I sat on the roof and kicked off the moss"?).

I've lived with people who insist on having windows open in winter for fresh air, but I've always been content with the air that comes in through the opening of doors and the various cracks and crevices in the house's structure, without any *apparent* ill health effects.

RH

No problem, Ron.  I'm a bit of a gas geek (sounds odd, eh?).  I run the gas safety programme for housing association and bloody live and breathe the stuff.  Actually going to a course on landlord's legal requirements in February to increase my knowledge.

And yes, Paul, I would agree that if the appliances were installed by the father (assumed not CORGI registered) whilst the property was still private, then, no it was not illegal.  However, if it was installed whilst void between tenancies or under tenancy, by an unregistered installer, then the landlord has broken the law.

Add to that, if it was a brand new install (ie, never had gas appliances or meter) on private property and it was turned into a rental in under a year, then I believe no CP12 would be required on the new tenancy because new installs don't require CP12s until it's a year old.  This is where it starts to get hazy.

I think Ron's case hinges on whether the property was deemed a rental when the appliances were installed.

Ron, if you are really concerned and don't want to damage the relationship with your landlord, simply pay to have a safety inspection done.  Ring round a price them.  We get them done between £48-60, but we are running bulk, so I would guess it would be in the region of £80-100 depending upon the area.  Is the gas cooker yours or the landlord's?

However, if it was installed whilst void between tenancies or under tenancy, by an unregistered installer, then the landlord has broken the law.

Fair enough, although I can see a gray area with an empty property if somebody wanted to try to argue that he intended to use it himself and then later decided to rent it out again.    I guess that's how lawyers get rich!

As far as I can see, there is no ventilation for the attic

Have you looked for grilles under the soffits, or air bricks in the gable ends? 

You'll normally find airbricks just above ground level as well to allow for ventilation under the floor, unless it's solid concrete.

I see the air bricks under the floor, Paul, but i don't see anything near the roof - certainly nothing in the gables - can look again under the soffits.

The cooker is the landlord's, Cait. And the new gas heaters were installed when the property was private. When we rented they had a 'for sale' sign on the place, but the landlord decided he could just as well rent. I also thought about the option of hiring someone in to inspect, but with the info I've got now I feel a bit more comfortable just mentioning it as a matter of course, and I think they had an inspection before we moved in, because they were told to move a drain pipe for the water heater.

r.

I see the air bricks under the floor, Paul, but i don't see anything near the roof - certainly nothing in the gables - can look again under the soffits.

It's not unusual for vents to be blocked when work is done, such as having PVC soffits fitted over the old originals.  There may be adequate through ventilation anyway depending upon how the roof tiles are fitted.