Enforcement of 12 month driving rule

Funnily enough, British Columbia doesn't have an agreement with the UK, only America, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Japan and South Korea. One does have to take a short written test, but that is fairly typical.

http://www.icbc.com/licensing/lic_renew_replace_new.asp

Funnily enough, British Columbia doesn't have an agreement with the UK, only America, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, Japan and South Korea. One does have to take a short written test, but that is fairly typical.

http://www.icbc.com/licensing/lic_renew_replace_new.asp

That's true, but all Canadian driver's licences, as far as I am aware, regardless of province or territory, can be exchanged for a British driving licence, with the automatic restriction of only being able to drive an automatic, unless you can prove that you got your driver's test on a manual. See http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/DrivingInGbOnAForeignLicence/DG_4022562

The agreements to exchange British licences for Canadian provinces / territories varies on the individual province / territory: i.e. no problem if you have a British driving licence and choose to settle in Alberta or Ontario.

The answer could be to temporarily relocate to provinces that do swap, like Alberta and Ontario, I think.

Alberta:

www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/index.cfm?fuseaction=section:drivers:newlicence#NonAltaOperatorLicence

For anyone who cares / wants to know more, here's a page I found ages ago and saved for reference, though I would suggest you check with each province / territory to confirm the info below is accurate, as things may change:

www.canada.gc.ca/othergov/prov_e.html

(Can't find the source for below and it's approximately a year old at least!)

"Please note that reciprocal agreements only exist for UK licences issued by the DVLA. Those issued by DVLANI (Northern Ireland) are not part of the agreement.

Reciprocal Agreements

Quebec
Quebec offers a complete reciprocal agreement allowing the exchange of any type of UK licence for an equivilent one issued by Quebec.

Ontario
Ontario has an agreement which allows holders of UK licences, to exchange them for a full Class G licence. This is applicable if you can prove 24 months of driving experience within the last three years. You will also need to take a vision test.


If your driving experience is less than 24 months in the last three years you will only be granted a G2 licence. You will then need to gain two years driving experience and pass the road and vision test to be granted the full G licence.


Ontario will not exchange motorcycle licences, however you may be credited with experience upon application.

Newfoundland and Labrador
A reciprocal agreement is in place allowing you to exchange your UK class B (class A before April 1990) licence providing it was issued after 1st January 1976. If issued before this date, you will need to retake your knowledge, road and vision tests.


If you have motorcycle privileges on your licence, these will be transferred to your new Newfoundland licence upon completion of a vision test.

Alberta
Alberta has a reciprocal agreement dependant upon certain conditions.


If your full UK licence was issued before January 1st 1976 it cannot be exchanged for an Alberta licence. You will have to retake your test according to the Alberta Driving Licence Programme.


If your licence was issued after this date you will be able to exchange it for a full Alberta Class 5 licence providing it is a UK class B or class A if issued before 1st April 1990.

Saskatchewan
Sask also has a reciprocal agreement in place allowing the exchange of UK A to E licence for a Sasketchewan Class 5 licence. Motorcycle privileges can also be transferred over.


You will need to provide your valid UK licence along with a driving record showing a history of accidents and convictions to allow the exchange to take place.

New Brunswick
New Brunswick has a reciprocal agreement allowing the exchange of full UK licences for one of its own. This is applicable to Class 5 licence only and does not apply to licences for commercial vehicles. For these categoies you will need to retake your tests.

Manitoba
Manitoba offers a complete reciprocal agreement allowing the exchange of any type of UK licence for an equivilent one issued by Manitoba.

Non-reciprocal Agreements

British Columbia
BC has a graduated licence programme in place, meaning that you have to pass in stages.


If you have held your UK licence for 24 months or more you will be able to fast-track the programme You will need to take a vision screening test and a knowledge test and once you feel ready, a road test. Fees are applicable to the knowledge and road test, but the vision screening is free. Providing you pass all tests you will be granted a full BC licence.


If you have held your licence for less than 24 months you will have to enter the graduated licence programme at the novice level. The first stage includes a knowledge and road test. You will then be granted a novice licence. This licence is valid for 24 months and is subject to conditions and restrictions, during which time you will need to pass your final road test in order to obtain your full BC licence.

Prince Edward Island
Although you will need to pass a knowledge and road test along with a vision test, you will be granted a full PEI licence after passing these as long as you have held your UK licence for 24 months or more.


Licences held for less than 24 months will need to enter the PEI Graduate Driving Programme.

Nova Scotia
In Nova Scotia you will need to take a knowledge, vison and road test providing you have held your UK licence for 24 months or more. You will then be granted a full Nova Scotia licence.


You will be entered into the Graduate Driving programme if you have held your licence for less than 24 months.

Yukon
You will have to take a full written, vision and road test in order to be granted a full Yukon licence.

Negotiations are in place for reciprocal agreements to be set up for the provinces not currently included in the system."
   

If the authorities had not made obtaining a U.K. license from scratch so long-winded and expensive, then this wouldn't be such a big deal.   I think the way a lot of people see this -- myself as a Brit included -- is that it's ridiculous to require an experienced American driver to be treated like a teenager who has just started to drive and doesn't hold a license from anywhere.

The whole 12-month rule coupled with the above makes for glaring inconsistencies when you stop and think about what's going on.   If you are considered safe enough to drive on the strength of a state-issued U.S. license for a year, does that mean that you automatically become an unsafe driver on the 366th day of residency?  Of course not.  After a year of getting used to British road conditions you're probably considerably less risk than in those first few weeks when you were still trying to adapt to driving here.

With regard to insurance, I see comments about it being invalidated, but as far as I'm aware if you actually have a policy the insurer may not refuse a third-party claim just on the basis that you were breaking some law at the time of the accident.   If that were the case, they'd be able to refuse to pay out if you hit someone when speeding, running a stop light, etc., which would completely negate the purpose of mandatory insurance in the first place, since a large majority of collisions result from some breach of the law.

That's not to say that in the event of a crash an investigation might not reveal you to be driving on an invalid license, and the police could follow up with the appropriate charge, but there could be no charge of driving uninsured.   The company could refuse to pay for any other things though, such as injuries to yourself, repairs to your own vehicle (if comprehensive cover), etc.

But it does mean that it's NOT unprecedented or necessarily infeasible to have a reciprocal agreement that includes the USA.

Are those actually reciprocal agreements though?  I did a quick check on a few state DMV's at random and none of the websites had any information about exchanging foreign licences.  If the exchange is only one way then the agreement is not reciprocal.

I will say I was far to lazy to check all 50 states and DC so I may have just been unlucky with my random sample.

I wouldn't be against the UK unilaterally exchanging US licences per say, but, as they are supposed to work in our interest, I'd much rather they used the possibility as leverage to obtain a fully reciprocal agreement that allows UK licences to be exchanged in the US.

The whole 12-month rule coupled with the above makes for glaring inconsistencies when you stop and think about what's going on.   If you are considered safe enough to drive on the strength of a state-issued U.S. license for a year, does that mean that you automatically become an unsafe driver on the 366th day of residency?  Of course not.  After a year of getting used to British road conditions you're probably considerably less risk than in those first few weeks when you were still trying to adapt to driving here.

My thoughts exactly - thank you for putting it into words.

If you are considered safe enough to drive on the strength of a state-issued U.S. license for a year, does that mean that you automatically become an unsafe driver on the 366th day of residency?  Of course not.

I'm not sure safety is the only concern in this particular law.

Consider the US; you are licensed in your state of residency.  This licence allows you unlimited driving in other states.  But if you move states, you have a limited time (circa 30 days) to change your out-of-state licence for an in state one.  Why?  Do you become an unsafe driver after 31 days?

So the general reason for having a limited time to use an out-of-state (or foreign) licence appears to be jurisdictional.

As to why US licences can't be exchanged, most international agreements are (rightly so) based on reciprocity.  You do this for us, we'll do the same for you.

The US won't exchange our licences so we don't exchange theirs.

With regard to insurance, I see comments about it being invalidated, but as far as I'm aware if you actually have a policy the insurer may not refuse a third-party claim just on the basis that you were breaking some law at the time of the accident.   If that were the case, they'd be able to refuse to pay out if you hit someone when speeding, running a stop light, etc., which would completely negate the purpose of mandatory insurance in the first place, since a large majority of collisions result from some breach of the law.

Sorry for the multi-reply, I only just noticed this bit.

I do remember this being in the news, but the case wasn't an invalid licence if I remember.  I would be careful though, I'm not a legal expert, but it seems to me that all insurance documents include some declaration that you have a "valid licence" so if you declare that but don't (in the case of a 12 month + US licence) then they could invalidate the claim based on you misleading them, not any illegality.

Not related to Paul's reply, I've noticed a few people pointing out that driving whilst uninsured is a crime, but driving without a licence is a crime irregardless of your insurance status.

The US won't exchange our licences so we don't exchange theirs.

This could always go the other way round: the UK won't exchange the US licenses so the US won't exchange the UK's.

As to why US licences can't be exchanged, most international agreements are (rightly so) based on reciprocity.  You do this for us, we'll do the same for you.

Yes we discussed this a couple of pages back  and as someone pointed out, US licences are a state level matter, not federal so it might be difficult to have a reciprocal agreement that covers the entire USA.

Consider the US; you are licensed in your state of residency.  This licence allows you unlimited driving in other states.  But if you move states, you have a limited time (circa 30 days) to change your out-of-state licence for an in state one.  Why?  Do you become an unsafe driver after 31 days?

I think they assume it'll take you about 30 days to get your act together and obtain a license from your new state which, in most cases, isn't a hard thing to do. That makes perfect sense. And, aware of the fact that it's more difficult to get a UK license, the government gives you a whole 12 months over here. Again, it makes perfect sense and it should be plenty long enough for anyone.

This could always go the other way round: the UK won't exchange the US licenses so the US won't exchange the UK's.

Very true!

But... the UK exchanges licences from 40-odd countries, as far as I can tell the US exchanges licences from 0 countries.  I'm not a betting man, but, if I had to take a punt on which side the hold-up was on I know which one my money would be on!

I am aware that US licences are a issued by the state but that doesn't change the reciprocity issue, one federal agreement or 51 local, the principal is the same.

P.S. I have an inkling that Paul might try an discount the EU countries we are 'forced' to exchange, but that still leaves about 15 countries.

I think they assume it'll take you about 30 days to get your act together and obtain a license from your new state which, in most cases, isn't a hard thing to do. That makes perfect sense. And, aware of the fact that it's more difficult to get a UK license, the government gives you a whole 12 months over here. Again, it makes perfect sense and it should be plenty long enough for anyone.

Exactly.  I think that the UK expects people to put the "wheels in motion" so to speak once they've settled in, not wait the entire 12 months they're *okay* on their US licence before starting lessons and taking the test.  Knowing that it takes longer, I think it's rather generous to give 12 months.

Considering they only give you 6 months on a Fiancee' Visa...

Very true!

But... the UK exchanges licences from 40-odd countries, as far as I can tell the US exchanges licences from 0 countries.  I'm not a betting man, but, if I had to take a punt on which side the hold-up was on I know which one my money would be on!

I am aware that US licences are a issued by the state but that doesn't change the reciprocity issue, one federal agreement or 51 local, the principal is the same.

P.S. I have an inkling that Paul might try an discount the EU countries we are 'forced' to exchange, but that still leaves about 15 countries.

Have you ever been involved in negotiating a reciprocal agreement at national level? I have and I wouldn't like to have to do 50 separate ones for essentially the same thing. Then you'll get people complaining how it works one way in Tennessee and another way in Colorado, not to mention the crossover period when some states have it and some don't/ How unfair would that be? You're ok driving in California but go over the border to Arizona and you're not.  The whole thing would be a logistical nightmare. Not saying it can't or won't happen, just that it's not that simple.

The whole thing would be a logistical nightmare. Not saying it can't or won't happen, just that it's not that simple.

I never said it was simple.

People asked why US licences can't be exchanged and I think you've just given the basic answer there.

hee hee, I love how we have this same conversation every couple of months on UKY